The machine is blatantly pre programmed for all occurences...It knows how much it wants to give you max from cash/features and streak....End of story really.
Like all modern fruit machines, fairly basic programming really. It knows every possible outcome, I certainly would NOT say it is random at all.
Matt.
ALL FIRED UP
pre-programmed hmmm... well how does that explain for the fact you can get the top feature on a board when the machine is completely dead. I agree most machines have controlled spins, but this one doesn't it is run on probabilities when spinning round the board...
the machine knows before it has spun round what the number will be, but in the players terms it is like a pseudo random number.
try to understand what I'm saying before jumping in condradicting me
the machine knows before it has spun round what the number will be, but in the players terms it is like a pseudo random number.
try to understand what I'm saying before jumping in condradicting me
oh and in terms of it knowing how much it wants to give maximum from cash/features that is complete rubbish, most machines have blocks yes but there is NO BLOCK AT ALL on vamp it up, there is no maximum a board can give, also the streaks ( top feature ) can give £40+ even when the machine is along way of red boosting.
That is an interesting theory; when a vamp is dead, as in 'picking dead', it does throw in freak boards, dropping in Vamp-streaks, etc. It would also explain why you can get Nearest Win JPs a lot easier than off Superhold, which is easier than Tutti Frutti, which is easier than Cash Attack, etc, as you need less moves round the board to attain the JP. The more buzzed the machine is the balance of probabilities moves away from ? numbers resulting in longer lasting boards.
I'm not sure the % stats are that simple though, if you need to land on the +3 cash to get a jackpot, or the +1 streak to get the top streak it rarely lands it unless it's ridiculously off it's nut suggesting that all the board positions are weighted accordingly to what is potentially on offer. The +3 cash hasn't the same probability as a useless +1 upgrade, because the majority of the time you will get given the position you don't want. This could indicate it has already decided the maximum it wants to give you. The top streak when dead, if you've noticed it usually comes in completely free as in it lands clean on +1streak, perhaps this could be explained by it coming in after a default amount of credit and is unaffected by previous payout, hence the free streak? A similar 'freeboard' comes in when applying the "Extreme key trick" - it gives a top streak (occasionally £75) when the machine is stone cold dead. I don't claim to know what I'm talking about at all, it's just quite interesting to speculate.
I'm not sure the % stats are that simple though, if you need to land on the +3 cash to get a jackpot, or the +1 streak to get the top streak it rarely lands it unless it's ridiculously off it's nut suggesting that all the board positions are weighted accordingly to what is potentially on offer. The +3 cash hasn't the same probability as a useless +1 upgrade, because the majority of the time you will get given the position you don't want. This could indicate it has already decided the maximum it wants to give you. The top streak when dead, if you've noticed it usually comes in completely free as in it lands clean on +1streak, perhaps this could be explained by it coming in after a default amount of credit and is unaffected by previous payout, hence the free streak? A similar 'freeboard' comes in when applying the "Extreme key trick" - it gives a top streak (occasionally £75) when the machine is stone cold dead. I don't claim to know what I'm talking about at all, it's just quite interesting to speculate.
finally someone with a brain actually thought about it, cheers dynamike!
yes I agree that the %age stats are not as simple as my example, that was just for ease of argument lol!
sometimes it is the free one when picking if you got the top feature, but I have seen it give a top feature when picking and dead setting that was certainly not a free one ( didnt land on +streak at all or add many streaks on multiadds ). the chances are very slim you can get lucky all the spins you need to, to get the top feature in this situation but... it is possible...
In terms of it not landing on +3 cash, not really an indication of the maximum the board can give, it just has a very small %age chance of landing on this if the cash is reasonably high, getting smaller chance the deader it is.... thats not to say it wont land on cash another move though, its not like a block or a maximum pay for that board.
Had extreme's repeat of a blagged jp when doing the key thing ( 1/12 after shuffle ) but they are a completely different machine... certainly no randomness to board spins here!!
yes I agree that the %age stats are not as simple as my example, that was just for ease of argument lol!
sometimes it is the free one when picking if you got the top feature, but I have seen it give a top feature when picking and dead setting that was certainly not a free one ( didnt land on +streak at all or add many streaks on multiadds ). the chances are very slim you can get lucky all the spins you need to, to get the top feature in this situation but... it is possible...
In terms of it not landing on +3 cash, not really an indication of the maximum the board can give, it just has a very small %age chance of landing on this if the cash is reasonably high, getting smaller chance the deader it is.... thats not to say it wont land on cash another move though, its not like a block or a maximum pay for that board.
Had extreme's repeat of a blagged jp when doing the key thing ( 1/12 after shuffle ) but they are a completely different machine... certainly no randomness to board spins here!!
I'm becoming even more convinced by this.
Ever wondered why it lands +3 cash, then throws a 5 or 12? Because the machine wasn't ready to offer you +3cash but due to the randomness you beat the odds and got lucky, the machine didn't like that and decides to give more weight to 5/12 to kill you to, in effect, give you a really remote chance of landing on any +cash squares next move.
Re: key trick on extremes. The 1/12 shuffle JP isn't what I meant, that's a seperate joy
The freeboard during this exercise comes in out the blue: the cash pot starts going mad and it should go invincible or just hit all the bats/nurses to give the top feature. I always thought it was similar to the streak on vamps when they were dead and perhaps explained by a seperate pot built up over a default number of boards or something, basically not in sync with the %. It's largely irrelevant though and mostly uneducated guesswork.
Ever wondered why it lands +3 cash, then throws a 5 or 12? Because the machine wasn't ready to offer you +3cash but due to the randomness you beat the odds and got lucky, the machine didn't like that and decides to give more weight to 5/12 to kill you to, in effect, give you a really remote chance of landing on any +cash squares next move.
Re: key trick on extremes. The 1/12 shuffle JP isn't what I meant, that's a seperate joy
The freeboard during this exercise comes in out the blue: the cash pot starts going mad and it should go invincible or just hit all the bats/nurses to give the top feature. I always thought it was similar to the streak on vamps when they were dead and perhaps explained by a seperate pot built up over a default number of boards or something, basically not in sync with the %. It's largely irrelevant though and mostly uneducated guesswork.-
king_conspiracy
- Senior Member
- Posts: 306
- Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2005 8:20 pm
"try to understand what I'm saying before jumping in condradicting"
(by the way contradicTing...Theres a T in it)
"finally someone with a brain actually thought about it"
Seriously, You can fuck right off if you are going to go around calling members of the board (who you dont even know) stupid just because their opinion is different to yours!
I considered my experience on VIU's and clones but not necessarily a large amont of experience on AFU and then I gave my opinion... In order to be insulted straight away.
In case you didnt know (which you obviously didnt) its what people do on Forums, everyone puts in ideas/experience/opinions/theories. AND not all posts were agreeing with you either Ob.
As for not having a brain? Well A's/B's Straight on Gcses/ A levels and currently on a First at University tell me different.
SO, my advice for you as you seem to like pointing out when people are "jumping in" is dont "jump in(with an insult)" when someone is simply stating their opinion.
Sorry for the long post.
King.
(by the way contradicTing...Theres a T in it)
"finally someone with a brain actually thought about it"
Seriously, You can fuck right off if you are going to go around calling members of the board (who you dont even know) stupid just because their opinion is different to yours!
I considered my experience on VIU's and clones but not necessarily a large amont of experience on AFU and then I gave my opinion... In order to be insulted straight away.
In case you didnt know (which you obviously didnt) its what people do on Forums, everyone puts in ideas/experience/opinions/theories. AND not all posts were agreeing with you either Ob.
As for not having a brain? Well A's/B's Straight on Gcses/ A levels and currently on a First at University tell me different.
SO, my advice for you as you seem to like pointing out when people are "jumping in" is dont "jump in(with an insult)" when someone is simply stating their opinion.
Sorry for the long post.
King.
yeh ok king, apologise, was a bit out of order...
Not implying you are stupid, just I think you need to think about what I'm saying and you might see how it is true... quite a complicated theory alot of people dont understand straight away, but when you think about the machine you'll realise it is actually PROBABLY correct
Not implying you are stupid, just I think you need to think about what I'm saying and you might see how it is true... quite a complicated theory alot of people dont understand straight away, but when you think about the machine you'll realise it is actually PROBABLY correct
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king_conspiracy
- Senior Member
- Posts: 306
- Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2005 8:20 pm
Keep it civil guys....
Personally i'm not buying any of these theories suggested. Its no different from going on a dead Nuns n Roses/GBC/JJC offering successive £2 boards then throwing in the random MS/£25 shot. It happens on most machines.....all this talk of percentages and beating the odds and getting lucky is frankly rubbish. Its a predetermined outcome, not a game of odds. Surely as fruit machine players you must know this....
Don't bother givng me all of the 'you are so wrong' speil either, just wanted to make a voice known
Matt
Personally i'm not buying any of these theories suggested. Its no different from going on a dead Nuns n Roses/GBC/JJC offering successive £2 boards then throwing in the random MS/£25 shot. It happens on most machines.....all this talk of percentages and beating the odds and getting lucky is frankly rubbish. Its a predetermined outcome, not a game of odds. Surely as fruit machine players you must know this....
Don't bother givng me all of the 'you are so wrong' speil either, just wanted to make a voice known
Matt
"Sixty percent of the time, it works, every time!"
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king_conspiracy
- Senior Member
- Posts: 306
- Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2005 8:20 pm
Im sure you were not intentionally backing me up there Mattb but thanks anyway....
That was exactly my point and I was told "i dont have a brain" for stating it...
VIU and clones are frankly the most boring machines out there, every chav and his dog plays (and knows how to play) them. They arent challenging either.
But yep, as i said and as MattB also states above - a "predetermined outcome".
Matt M
That was exactly my point and I was told "i dont have a brain" for stating it...
VIU and clones are frankly the most boring machines out there, every chav and his dog plays (and knows how to play) them. They arent challenging either.
But yep, as i said and as MattB also states above - a "predetermined outcome".
Matt M
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Matt Vinyl
- Senior Member
- Posts: 7198
- Joined: Wed May 11, 2005 6:56 pm
- Location: Lost in the outback, Bryan
in spite of sounding contradictory - I agree MattB - all 'wins' are pre-determined.
But...
...Take Reds '£15-£20 no-board' mode. I'd hazard a guess that there is a 'set' of reel combinations that the machine 'knows' offers no wins / good trail helds / bonus positions. Say there's 100 combinations. It is quite possible that these combinations are then randomly spun in during the suck-mode, as it doesn't matter which one it gives you, as you ain't winnin' nada'!
As I said before, may well not be the case, but it's certainly the way I've gone about it in some of my (far less advanced than real machines!) programming...
But...
...Take Reds '£15-£20 no-board' mode. I'd hazard a guess that there is a 'set' of reel combinations that the machine 'knows' offers no wins / good trail helds / bonus positions. Say there's 100 combinations. It is quite possible that these combinations are then randomly spun in during the suck-mode, as it doesn't matter which one it gives you, as you ain't winnin' nada'!
As I said before, may well not be the case, but it's certainly the way I've gone about it in some of my (far less advanced than real machines!) programming...
"And do you ever contradict yourself, Minister?" "Well, yes and no..."
hmm ok we'll have to agree to disagree....
nuns and roses is the most obviously progressive machine on earth in comparison to vamp it up, so I really dont go with that example. I'm saying all the boards on VIU are random to an extent not just an odd thing out of the blue like on nuns and roses
you say pre-determined but then why does a board give the top feature when its completely dead, and its NOT a cycled free board, that cant be explained by pre-determined sequences.
To call my theory rubbish, with no explanation apart from " every machine is predetermined " frankly is not going far in disproving it... where I have given examples of why it could be true, you have given no examples why it may not.....
In terms of being a machine player I must know its a game of predermined outcomes, I'd agree on nearly every other machine, it is, but not on this series, and believe me I've played them myabe 10000 times lol, so I've got just cause to argue the theory!
nuns and roses is the most obviously progressive machine on earth in comparison to vamp it up, so I really dont go with that example. I'm saying all the boards on VIU are random to an extent not just an odd thing out of the blue like on nuns and roses
you say pre-determined but then why does a board give the top feature when its completely dead, and its NOT a cycled free board, that cant be explained by pre-determined sequences.
To call my theory rubbish, with no explanation apart from " every machine is predetermined " frankly is not going far in disproving it... where I have given examples of why it could be true, you have given no examples why it may not.....
In terms of being a machine player I must know its a game of predermined outcomes, I'd agree on nearly every other machine, it is, but not on this series, and believe me I've played them myabe 10000 times lol, so I've got just cause to argue the theory!