new paragon for sale

[Istenem]

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/PARAGON-GAMES-QUI ... dZViewItem


gwhl are based in nottingham but it seems odd that they are prepared to sell a cabinet in this way, unless it has been knocked off.
could be useful for learning something like PMP or racking up some colossal scores. if it has hex you'd fancy a decent little earner in the wild.
i assume we all know the easier categories but get stymied by welsh names and scottish clans.
anyway, for a couple of grand this has to be worth it to someone serious.

[quizard]

Well the one in the picture is a Pargon Mark 1 so it is hardly new. Two grand for the box and you are supposed pay for the software licences seperately. Not really a snip I would say.

[Nil Satis]

As a confirmed Paragon hater (I consider them only one step removed from those non-paying 14" TV-style machines that sit on the bars of certain dodgy pubs) I'd warn anyone against forking out that sort of money (£2,000+) for this, although in truth I think the sale is aimed more at people wanting to buy and run the machine as a business than at players.

As has been explained on here before, even a game like Hex Appeal which seems 'learnable' is going to be a futile exercise because the payout structure is so stingy and because it starts giving you completely general categories as soon as it wants you to lose - Pot Luck or Words as opposed to Signs of the Zodiac or Chinese Meals. You may increase your average win from £1 to £2 after many hours of practice but that means you are going to have to play an awful lot to recoup a couple of grand.

There has barely ever been anything I've seen on a Paragon which will pay out even a few quid an hour on any sort of reliable, regular basis. Be warned!

[cool]

This Paragon is a collection of cack. £2000 for something that is only worth its scrap value seems excessive.

[wigwamsun]

Whole heartedly agree with cool, paragon content is shite. The problem is that games warehouse are lousy payers, so most decent content providers stick the proverbial up at them.

[Istenem]

sorry to intrude on a slagging match but if gwhl pay is poor, then programmers for revolution must be overpaid idle toads with no ambition/pride in their work , i can't think of any revolution games which have even half of the stylishness of comparable gwhl offerings. new itbox games tend to be hugely dull, i have found more interesting things up my nose.

itbox's infantile honeybee thing versus gwhl's infantile buckaroo?
no contest, the horse shits on the bee. qed.

this is in addition to playability issues. the only shitbox games which gives me any sort of thrill are WU and japseye i realise that the hardware is getting pretty creaky now and that itbox can only support unsophisticated content but for anyone who doesn't play for profit, paragon machines are immeasurably superior. just my views but they are right.

[QuizMaster]

Not really my thing to get into a slanging match, since as UP says, anybody who doesn't play for profit can't really see why itbox champions over Paragon every time.

However, since over the course of historical posts there is absolutely no doubt that UP is a confirmed Paragon lover, without offering any real credible reason as to why (I suspect because he is involved with them somehow - maybe as a tester/sounding board)

Word Up is no argument for Paragon being better - it's on all platforms and indeed both Gamesnet + itbox have a better selection of Word Games.

I shall offer 2 arguments for discussion regarding the quality of Paragon conent>

Bee Wars: Buzzle vs Moneycomb
Presentation Wars: Pink Panther vs Mousetrap

Discuss

[Istenem]

yep i prefer paragon to itbox but i'm not on the payroll or otherwise affiliated to gwhl, but you'll have to take my word for that. i play for beer money and entertainment, i do a normal job for my income. answering n questions for a jackpot isn't my bag; i'm looking for a bit of benign amusement and a modest cash return.
my opinions are mainly aesthetic.

anyway, imo buzzwords (which is a much better name than buzzle) beats moneycomb but it is not like for like. (i also prefer ice cream to the vicar of dibley.)

i don't think i've played pink panther unless you mean the really old one where you go around a parisian cluedo board. mousetrap is a playable game to a degree.

so in your examples, in theory i'd give my 50p to the ones you prompted me to go for but since WU is on "all platforms", in practice i would just play that instead.

just as i don't fully appreciate the whys and wherefores of playing for profit, there is more to a genre such as "word games" i only ever play TT for the money, i find the game itself boring, ditto WC. there is actually very little about words in either of those games, it is all about technique. otoh WU combines strategy with wordpower which makes it a different (and infinitely more attractive) kettle of fish.

anyway. i guess it all depends on your motivation for playing SWP, i'd suggest i'm in the majority amongst the general public but good luck to anyone who is in it for the money.

[QuizMaster]

You are right about Buzzle not being like for like with Moneycomb.

On that basis, however, Buzzle cannot be compared to Buckaroo since they are not like for like either. Mousetrap vs Buckaroo vs Guess Who is a much closer comparison (since they all originate from Mildly Banal games)

You are not in the majority with the general public. I have many friends who are members of the general public, and they do not keep a record of the longest words they have ever made on Word Up and then post them on an aquaintance's home made high score website

Since you only really care for Bullseye and Word Up, you may as well play anything in the market place. Paragon holds no visible preference for you.

The only reason to distinguish Paragon from any other box is the games the other boxes don't have i.e. Moneycomb, Cops & Robbers, Word Cube, Pints Make Prizes, Spend it Like....?, Dungeon Dosh.

All classics I'm sure you'd agree.

And the only thing to distinguish Paragon from any other box is the games they have which it doesn't i.e. Deal or No Deal, Millionaires, Caveman Capers, Monopoly, Mousetrap, Cluedo, Hangman, Nuts etc.

The defence rests m'lud.

[Istenem]

as you will see above, my initial comparison bwn buzzle and buckaroo was purely visual, nothing about gameplay; a cutesy bee versus a stylised nag all very twee.

i liked the bit about posting my best WU scores on EWQ's website , i fully acknowledge how geeky this is but i think you know that was not my angle when making the comment about my being joe bloggs. the reason i play the things is partly alcoholism and partly mental stimulation.

The only reason to distinguish Paragon from any other box is the games the other boxes don't have i.e. Moneycomb, Cops & Robbers, Word Cube, Pints Make Prizes, Spend it Like....?, Dungeon Dosh.

All classics I'm sure you'd agree.

And the only thing to distinguish Paragon from any other box is the games they have which it doesn't i.e. Deal or No Deal, Millionaires, Caveman Capers, Monopoly, Mousetrap, Cluedo, Hangman, Nuts etc.

there are reliability and functionality issues too.
of the games you mention i make more profit from paragon games but i'm not in it for the big bucks (except when it happens to be quick and easy). 50p in for £2 out will do me every time. i'm quite sure you honestly are of the opinion the the latter batch is better. i am honestly of the opinion that the former is the better. but i'll swop you nuts for SIL..?

[Nil Satis]

i also prefer ice cream to the vicar of dibley.

To summarise then, comparing ItBoxes (not my favourite admittedly and poorer than they have been in the past) to Paragons is like comparing ice cream to The Vicar of Dibley - they serve entirely different purposes and will appeal to those who want different things from their machine time.

If you aren't looking for decent returns and are happy to play pretty games that offer little or no potential for any decent profit then you'll plump for Paragons; if on the other hand you actually have winning money as your primary motive for all those hours spent playing machines then you'll go for ItBoxes or more likely Gamesnets or even better (without giving too many trade secrets away ) you'll cherry-pick the best games from the ever-changing selections that are out there, independent of which machine they are on.

My two penn'orth is that I have NEVER seen a game that has only been available on Paragons which I'd consider to be worth playing and those occasional decent ones that do crop up on a Paragon, while also being available elsewhere, are often poorer in comparison - an inaccurate touchscreen on Word Up, a poorer prize structure on Moneycomb etc.

There really IS no comparison...

[Ernest W. Quality]

... except involving frozen dairy products and weak sitcoms.

[WaterGate]

Buckeroo does look lovely. So does Jessica Alba. But I can't play with her either!

[grecian]

Personally I class myself in the playing for money stakes although there are certain games which don't pay well but are enjoyable enough to make one want to play them in any case. At the moment, I think Paragons are generally worth playing - for my money there are one or two games on them which you don't find elsewhere and which are both enjoyable and moderately rewarding. I like Trivia for Dummies, and I always enjoy Pints Make Prizes (and once got an £8 prize out of it; truly a proud moment). Hangman's Haunted House seems only to crop up on Paragons and like cabinets nowadays as well. Cops and Robbers is definitely in the enjoyable but non-paying category as well.

To my mind, the overall selection of games on the Itbox is much better than the Paragon is that there are less games which are an absolute waste of time on the ItBox. I suspect ItBox apply higher minimum standards to the games they take than do e.g. Paragon. I'd also say that the overall hardware/software reliability of an ItBox is better than that of a Paragon.

That said, ItBox isn't deserving of much praise at the moment - for the serious (i.e. playing for money) player things on the ItBox are as bad as they've ever been. Whilst there are a collection of very enjoyable games on the average ItBox - I'm thinking WWTBAM, Nuts, Ant and Dec, Pub Quiz, ItBox Soccer, Caveman Capers, (new Coronation Street - great fun although never a big payer), DOND - not one of them is at all likely to award even a top player with more than £3 to £4 (and they won't all be paying at the same time, generally). I find at the moment that in an average ItBox session I put in maybe £4 or £5 and take maybe £5 or £6 which is far from impressive and is never going to provide beer money for the evening. I suspect a conscious decision has been taken by ItBox to raise the likelihood of Joe Public taking a quid or two out of games, which is what keeps your average Joe returning to machines (or so the theory goes) at the expense of the chance of the 'professional' player taking a £10 or £20 prize. I can't say the position is particularly better on a Paragon, though.

As Nil Satis has alluded to, I think the smart money at the moment is on GamesNets. Mainly because they offer jackpot opporunities on Big Match World Cup (not that I've seen a 'paying' one for many weeks) but also because they tend to carry the more enjoyable ItBox games as well - WWTBAM, Ant and Dec, DOND, Caveman Capers come to mind. Again, though if BMWC isn't in the mood, takings will be similar to ItBox. I like the new Countdown game as well.

So, to conclude this rambling post, all the cabinets have upsides and downsides but I'd order them GamesNet, ItBox, Paragon. The main point though is that QUIZ MACHINES ARE VERY POOR EARNERS AT THE MOMENT. Will this change? I doubt it. Manufacturers know that the serious money gets taken by the crossover games i.e. those that Joe Public likes to play and has a chance of a few quid on. By and large these are the ones where any prize significantly in excess of £4 is very difficult to get. It's enough to make one take up fruities.

[Ernest W. Quality]

I'd also say that the overall hardware/software reliability of an ItBox is better than that of a Paragon.

I'd challenge that claim. There are far too many Itboxes where the coin mech either doesn't accept any money, or doesn't pay it all out unless you stick a pencil up the chute, or bash the machine around (usually the barman will suggest this).

Paragons sometimes have skewed screens of course, but I don't find nearly as many coin problems per machine.

Compare the percentage of quizzers with faulty mechs to the equivalent percentage of coke/chocolate vending machines, coffee machines etc. Even pool and table-football tables are more reliable.