gambler or pro player?

trayhop123 · Post by **trayhop123** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 3:08 am

without trying to be big headed (hard for me lol) which do you see yourselves as?

im first to admit that im well known on here for being a bit of a boaster (understatement lol) , and i do like to harp on about the merits of discipline and mental strength , but its that discipline (no excuse mind) that has given me the money to back up my claims , and more importantly its that discipline that has made me the pro player that i know i am today. i only consider myself a pro because of this fact .

dont anyone kid themselves and tick pro , because they are a ninja jedi at skills , because that dont amount to shit if you cant keep what you earn , the same go's for knowledge , you may know more than einstein but if you haven't any discipline it wont get you far.

we all fall by the wayside occasionally and row 150 pounds through something we know we shouldn't ,,,,,,, it happens ,,,,,,,, we make bad decisions.

but can you keep it to a minimum ? do you know when to walk?

are you in control?

are you methodic in what you play ,,,,,,, or will you play any bag of shite?

can you admit you need help ?

if fruit playing for profit became unprofitable due to randoms , or for whatever reason , would you stil have to play what's available ,,,,,, for playing sake?

none of us are perfect ,,,,,,, lots of pro players have tons more money than i do.

god knows ive made some bad decisions.

or are you the gambler that took an extremely large gamble that paid off ,,,,,,, walked away from the lifestyle ,,,,,,, minted ,,,,,,,, and so now consider yourself a pro for doing so ? (bit of a contradiction in that one lol)

if you walk in a pub do you have to have a board on the secondary bandit?
theres so many ways to look at this ,,,,,,,,,

should make for some interesting reading .

JG · Post by JG » Wed Mar 18, 2009 3:52 am

I've voted the second option and posted somewhere else beating myself up a bit more. Any other day I'd vote the top one. Even though I don't play as much as I used to, a 2K month does me fine now. Some may sniff with their 1K weeks, but that's the way it is.

I guess March '09 will be significantly under that target

Fucking rigged.

ob · Post by ob » Wed Mar 18, 2009 3:52 am

ok let me justify my "pro" pointer here...

I generally play normal fare, which I'd say in itself can even be a "gamble" ie. a refilled red for example but as an aside...

I also go for other machines some people may not... ie. globals, where I feel that although I am taking on a gamble, the odds are in my favour (bearing in mind refill percentage area etc.), and I'm looking for an overall long term result which is favorable, and not going to be swayed by the randomness they show - I'd say red's feature alot of the same virtues that globals do in this respect - perhaps some of the so called premium players (you know who u are sir's) might take this on board...

Even more to the gambling side is stuff like £500 compensated machines, ie. say that £500 DOND I played the other day, I imagine alot of you on here were thinking I was mad playing it in the first place, well yes in a way, I was subjecting myself to a possible big loss... but then I accepted this maybe the case, however I saw the machine was full and playing well so I thought the odds were in my favour - I'll take that gamble then... In all honesty this was somewhat of a novelty and I'd play such a machine maybe once in a blue moon - especially since I'll probably never find one full and happy again! Also I consider I'm gaining experience playing these machines, and may find out something that could be long term profitable - I mean look at slams, imagine how much the people that found out how to play them made in the long run (only to then lose it to the casinos on house games :P)

As for the odd silly roulette punt on the no zero roulette etc. that's just a pure gamble, ur odds are 100% or close to it, and that's personal chioce whether you want to do it for FUN... thats the issue here for me anyhow, FUN: I don't do it with profit in mind, and I only do it on the rare occasion so its not a big issue.

As for shit bfm etc. machines, I tired of playing them a board years ago, never do it whilst out playing, although still do it in town when I'm on the piss never get involved in them though....

Hopefully that helps some more premium players understand how you can play in a looser style and not do any worse for it

PS: Ok if you have 1000000000000 untouched hilo silvers then you wouldn't really consider something else during normal playing hours I know *** :P

alcozar · Post by **alcozar** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 6:11 am

I currently don't have the pro "skills" but something i intend to work on (as long as using profit), tend to do a route or several routes that i know the machines are likely to be profitable. Not too sure what category that puts me in on options given tbh.

harry2 · Post by **harry2** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 7:37 am

Bad gambler, terrible discipline. Weakness is roulette. Probably £300k down. Wasted an excellent education. Then again, spent fifteen years playing machines, staying in hotels, drinking champagne every other day and having a great craic.

sir ratholer · Post by **sir ratholer** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 7:58 am

Good subject here, I think discipline is probably the most under-rated area that you need to be strong at to succeed in this game. Organisation (which I guess stems from the same thing) is also very important, for example I carry a folder in my car of every single machine that I know about good or bad and have several routes (inc back up ones) in case the route I'm going on is smashed.

As for me, I never row 150 quid thru a heap, I have too much respect for money to do that. I'd rather spend it on something worthwhile. As I don't actually enjoy playing a machine, I never have the urge to do anything crazy like this, or play a random £500 machine.

I'll only play a very select band of machines, people may call me sad but I know which machines give me the highest EV per hour and I focus on playing them instead of more volatile/time consuming/less average profit fruits. So I'd say I'm pretty methodic in the stuff I play...

Addiction is definitely not a problem for me - as I said I don't actually enjoy playing so I have no need to slot. If I'm on a night out I hardly ever would play anything, only if I saw something so flying I could guarantee myself good profit, then I'd buy my mates a round with the profits. If randoms were solely available to play, I'd probably give a couple a crack to see if I could find anything on them, and then when I fail miserably I'd give up and find something else to do instead - which I'm already working on if that eventuality arises, though with things as they are at the moment I don't have much time to devote to this.

I definitely don't have as much money as I should for a variety of reasons and that's one of the main reasons as to why I'm ridiculously single minded on the subject of pro playing, especially this year, and this year my results have gone up with the amount of work I've put in, and I'm getting a nice little nest egg stashed away.

gambogaz1 · Post by **gambogaz1** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 8:18 am

I've put the middle 1, I don't rely on fruits to make a living but I do it for a better lifestyle. I don't know half the stuff some players know but I do know that my discipline has improved tenfold in the last 12 - 18 months. The last time i was angry with myself was about 9 months ago for thinking a showtime might be forceable with it not having a COB on it or DOND game :x Not touched 1 since though.

Maybe you should add internet player as an option

:P

pokerpete · Post by **pokerpete** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 8:28 am

you're either a recreational gambler or a proffessional gambler, but you ARE a gambler.

If you stake money on and event of uncertain (even if probable) outcome you are gambling. FACT

It's the denial of gambling that suggests the real addiction, not the act of gambling itself.

"If it weren't for Man's instinct to gamble we may still live in trees."

You need to admit to yourself you are a gambler, even if you consider yourself to be working at an advantage to less informed players.

Even poker players (who are playing a game of even chance) are in denial if they don't think what they're doing is gambing. With experience and study it's possible for poker players to be playing a better than 100% return strategy because they are playing against weaker players. They are still gambling, they're just odds-on.
Fruit machine players are playing a game where there's a considerable house rake so are competing, not only with the manufacturer, but with other players for the % available to pay out.

Cardinal Sin · Post by **Cardinal Sin** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 10:22 am

A wee bit of advice. IF you're going to top yourself, don't take pills AND domestos - otherwise you'll just end up barfing the whole lot back up.

jpfuk · Post by **jpfuk** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 10:29 am

^^^^^^

Taken directly from the Vickers short edit hand book on how to fail miserably at ending it all..

Avaliable at all nobles for £199.99, [ free bingo card if bought before 12 }

Mattb · Post by **Mattb** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 11:26 am

Second option for me. I make enough to keep myself in decent clothes, keep a car, pay rent and bills, eat well, go on holiday etc.....but my bank balance never really racks up as such unfortunately. Laziness, spendage and yes i will play stuff sometimes that you lot wouldn't touch (occasional DONDs etc) sees to that. Very few of my mates that work full time ever have any money either though, so i'm not doing too badly i don't think. Until i stop making enough to live the life i want to, i'm carrying on as i am.

ob · Post by ob » Wed Mar 18, 2009 1:44 pm

Fair points you make there sir rath, I'd agree say hilo has a high EV and also agree you put the work/org. in you can make more money. (I've heard that you keep a list of the cheapest drinks in every pub sir rath :P)

As I have shed loads of money though (through inheritance mainly this), I'm slightly less on the working side; if I wanted to work, I could have accepted a job offer from my masters degree work placement, which was starting on £35k a year.

I do enjoy playing different machines and machines in general which is why I still do it, it's sort of a balance between the money and the lifestyle; if I didn't enjoy playing machines at all, like you say, I certainly wouldn't be doing it; this is why I still rarely go in a pub I don't like the look off! Although if I did your sort of hours rather than mine (ie. about half yours lol) and just play premium stuff I would tire of that very quickly.

Oh and as an aside for this thread, if you only play machines that have a positive EV (to coin one of sir rath's sayings), which in laymans terms means you will win on it in the long run, and you save up money from doing this to live well/save up, you are a pro player - end off!

trayhop123 · Post by **trayhop123** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 1:59 pm

i have to answer pokerpete ,,,,,,,,,,, i see where your coming from ,,,,,,, of course its still gambling ,,,,,,,

but the odds are soooooo stacked in our favour at pro level , that it simply doesn't feel like it.

like sir ratty said , at pro level , with the skills , knowledge , discipline , combined you can achieve a mindset , that is as far removed from " gambling " as possible .

you can see it as nothing more than a job ,,,,, even a job you dislike , your float is your tools , you go to work with .

if the situation became unprofitable ,,,,,,,, those with the pro mindset can and will easily walk away and "find another job "

i expect you may want to debate your point further ,,,,,, and i respect you for that , after all at its very core , you are right , its gambling , its a valid point .

but for those with the right mindset ,,,,,,, its nothing more than an educated gamble , with a 90% consistent edge in our favour.

lee

pokerpete · Post by **pokerpete** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 3:59 pm

As a former poker pro I get a slightly different view on this.
One big difference between Fruit machine and poker pros is that you guys are a lot more solitary.
I would be sitting in a room with 100+ players 4 times a week (most of whom were recreational players obviously)
How ever many players I'd speak to, no-one was ever losing. They were either doing well, making a small profit or at very worst, "breaking even"

I remember asking people about records several times in the past and most said they went out with X and came back with Y. That was all they needed to know.

Unless you keep detailed records on every session on every machine, I'm always dubious about peoples claims in terms of profitability. Don't get me wrong, I know some are making a profit, but I've yet to speak to a single player who logs every £ staked against every £ returned. Wouldn't be that hard to do.

Anyone keep records like that? If you're going to use the word "professional" that implies some level of organised, methodical, work-like mind set.

Mattb · Post by **Mattb** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 4:49 pm

Not sure mate, people just usually keep a tally of money in vs money out on a machine, if its no refill knowledge of hopper balance, then see what you've got at the days end compared to what you started with. I still don't rally go out with a set amount, i grab a rough amount and go from there.