I agree that the slow (but sure) movement from 'good old' quiz and puzzle games to the more random nature of AWP-type games is not a good thing (barring the 'doability' of some of them!)
Personally, I can't see how some of these games get away with being classed as 'Skill With Prizes' - although that debate does cross the whole spectrum - including some quiz games; it's debatable whether knowing the weight of a blue whale in planks of 4x2 is classed as skill! But these ones that take 50p or a £1 off you for about 2 seconds worth of 'hope', surely not going to survive under SWP criteria...
"And do you ever contradict yourself, Minister?" "Well, yes and no..."
I completely agree that things like Casino Royale, and probably some of the poker stuff on the ItBox, look very much like AWP to me. I really only have an advantage over the general public when it comes to questions-based stuff so for me the encroachment of non-quiz SWPs is definitely a bad thing. It'd be interesting to hear the legal basis on which Paragons are classed as an SWP still - perhaps it is to do with the majority of content on them still being Q&A stuff.
grecian wrote:I completely agree that things like Casino Royale, and probably some of the poker stuff on the ItBox, look very much like AWP to me. I really only have an advantage over the general public when it comes to questions-based stuff so for me the encroachment of non-quiz SWPs is definitely a bad thing. It'd be interesting to hear the legal basis on which Paragons are classed as an SWP still - perhaps it is to do with the majority of content on them still being Q&A stuff.
I would imagine that the legal classifcation as an SWP is there by default, because nobody has thought to question it.
grecian wrote:I completely agree that things like Casino Royale, and probably some of the poker stuff on the ItBox, look very much like AWP to me. I really only have an advantage over the general public when it comes to questions-based stuff so for me the encroachment of non-quiz SWPs is definitely a bad thing. It'd be interesting to hear the legal basis on which Paragons are classed as an SWP still - perhaps it is to do with the majority of content on them still being Q&A stuff.
I would imagine that the legal classifcation as an SWP is there by default, because nobody has thought to question it.
I'd speculate that Paragon may have taken legal advice when they decided to start putting ostensibly AWP-style games on their cabinet - presumably the issue of the cabinet's legal classification is fairly fundamental to their business model, so I can't imagine they would take the decision that lightly.
grecian wrote:I completely agree that things like Casino Royale, and probably some of the poker stuff on the ItBox, look very much like AWP to me. I really only have an advantage over the general public when it comes to questions-based stuff so for me the encroachment of non-quiz SWPs is definitely a bad thing. It'd be interesting to hear the legal basis on which Paragons are classed as an SWP still - perhaps it is to do with the majority of content on them still being Q&A stuff.
I would imagine that the legal classifcation as an SWP is there by default, because nobody has thought to question it.
I'd speculate that Paragon may have taken legal advice when they decided to start putting ostensibly AWP-style games on their cabinet - presumably the issue of the cabinet's legal classification is fairly fundamental to their business model, so I can't imagine they would take the decision that lightly.
You could be right, I don't know. It seems to me that what constitutes an SWP has been a very gray area for a long time - as you know, there have plenty been quiz SWPs which can stop you winning anything when they want to (even if you play perfectly), and how is that skill with prizes?
'I'd speculate that Paragon may have taken legal advice' . I'd very much doubt that - the Gaming Board is toothless- I would be very surprised if any games manufacturer has ever been prosecuted by them- if so please give me examples with a relevant source- theyre just a quango. Can anybody point out anything of any use this body has ever produced .
cool wrote:'I'd speculate that Paragon may have taken legal advice' . I'd very much doubt that - the Gaming Board is toothless- I would be very surprised if any games manufacturer has ever been prosecuted by them- if so please give me examples with a relevant source- theyre just a quango. Can anybody point out anything of any use this body has ever produced .
I'm sure you're right re toothlessness of the Gaming Board Cool, but one might expect a reputable (?) company like Paragon / GWHL to take legal advice on matters which have the potential materially to affect their business, if only for their own box-ticking, none the less.
Blackcurrantsoda wrote:Got 5 cd rom updates 4.0.04 from games warehouse friday... The update clears bank if power is lost. A message appears above the bank 'malfunction voids all pays and plays' or something to those words... After 3 on offs the machine also alarms.
One negative aspect of this update happened to me today - I went into a pub and the coin mech wasn't accepting any coins so I turned the Paragon on and off at the wall (as this often causes the coin mech magically to start working again). Unfortunately they've now added a fifteen-minute delay time in reloading (it counts down from '900' once the programs have booted), presumably to thwart people trying to use "plugging" methods to earn a quick buck - bl**dy irritating, and as time is money I moved on to the next boozer.
While it is annoying that such a delay has been added - sometimes you can have a legitimate reason for wanting to restart a machine, such as when a game 'freezes' - I would have to say that anything the machine companies can do to discourage activities such as plugging is fine by me. There is a spectrum of activities that involve getting cash out of machines by non-standard means and I would certainly put plugging a lot further along that spectrum towards activities such as tooling, or just simply smashing the machine's lock in, than something like a software bug that awards free credits.
In the end all of these activities:
(a) give legitimate players a bad name
(b) take away money that would otherwise be available to legitimate players
and that for me makes them bad news.
P.S. Grecian - you know me well enough to know that this is absolutely NOT directed at you in any way; I am trying to make a general point here about activities which seem to me are becoming more and more prevalent, and which may become even more so in the current economic climate, with more people looking to 'earn' money from other sources and with fewer pubs and machines around to provide the opportunities to do this.
Seeing as they were getting totally torched by plugging, they are only protecting themselves i guess. The only good thing about the resets is CR is tasty from spanking new
"Sixty percent of the time, it works, every time!"
I do take the points about plugging guys - it's a very dubious practice and I'd agree it has no place among the legitimate player's portfolio of skills. That said, how hard can it be to programme each individual game so that plugging has no effect? Personally I think that switching a machine on and off to combat a non-accepting coin mech is entirely fair - indeed, it's probably what Paragon would want players or bar managers to do, to try to get the machine back in working order again. So the 900 second delay thing does end up penalising genuine players as well as pluggers. I take the "it's the price we all have to pay..." stuff but can Paragon not procedures in place to eradicate plugging-beneficial bugs from their software? Perhaps the answer to that is no.
The 900 second delay is because they are paranoid. Their next fix will be a proper fix to the flaws they have, not an oh shit theyre empty yet again better do something quick.
The current so called fix is VERY poor and causes inconvienience to all.
It kinda works in its own way, did they even know what was going on?!
Only issue i had with it was waiting for the load up to kill the cr for around £10 prof (i refuse to force new progs) not enough reward vs risk.
No its not a big risk, but id rather kill it and then have it when it has been ready'd up by munters.
won in a pub late January didnt pay out(I'm not saying which pub or co.)
pub took details.
contacted pub it was ongoing.
contacted pub refund was approved, told pub would contact me when refund arrived.Never did.
repeated phonecalls & even e-mail attempt but to no avail.
contacted pub head office-area manager investigating.
no contact from pub.
phone pub . pub returns call.told to phone number--the number of the manufacturer!!!!!
phone head office again. came back told me there were procedural irregularities and kindly forwarded to me a cheque! 2.5 months after the event.
thanks 2 the pub company-----sometimes they do believe the punter!!
'more future predictions no.2 : the game is up for one player in particular'.
