Skill with Payout on BetFred.com

quizard · Post by **quizard** » Wed Nov 07, 2007 11:29 pm

The supposed reworking of Quiz Master was a pretty pale shadow of the original game. One of the key features of the orginal was that the leading player could manipulate and manage the prize scores to suit his own purpose -- ie set up 10 closely grouped high scores well beyond the reach of 'ordinary punters' and then return at a later date and collect 'his' share of the money

And you could never really properly re-create the high speed play of a Quiz Master with a touch screen.

K_Oranj · Post by **K_Oranj** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 5:40 am

If memory serves me, the SWPs of the mid-90s weren't exempt from a gaming licence. Each machine was liable for Customs? Tax in line with the levy for £15 bandits at that time, though I'm not sure whether this was the case when quizzers first arrived on the scene.

In the mid-to-late 90s state of play however, the Chancellor saw fit to exempt quiz machines that were 50p play or less (even though the Risks, Super Clues, etc still had the additional £1 play option - grey area) since the operators' profits were making them wonder if quizzers were worth their time and the whole market was beginning to flag.

Might this have been when the terms SWP and AWP arose as a technical/legal distinction? Good job the Chancellor wasn't too clued up on the notion of spoilers and dice-throw rigging otherwise he may not have agreed with the 'Skill' part!

Anyway, with a £100 JP I'm not surprised the Gaming Board had a bit of a problem with that Quiz Master (which I learn of only now, and sadly never saw) - the licence would have been equivalent to a club fruit machine's!

Tell me if I'm talking bollocks.

Nil Satis · Post by **Nil Satis** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 6:08 am

SKILL4PRIZES wrote:Therefore, we decided on making a new front end for each and Breakthru followed the exact same game format of the orginal.

I'm confused here. Wasn't the original Breakthru the game where you had to answer usually 1 then 2 then 3 questions to knock out three 'bricks' in a 'wall' with the brick at the top of the wall then being an additional prize question for usually 1 or 2 quid? If so, wasn't the reissue a hugely more difficult and tedious exercise where each brick only advanced you very slowly along a prize line? Please forgive me if I am mistaking either the original or the reissue (old age and all that!) but if I am not then what you have written here is patently incorrect.

cool · Post by **cool** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 8:50 am

you also had the magic square on breakthru that meant you were in for big money!

K_Oranj · Post by **K_Oranj** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 4:06 pm

Nil Satis wrote

Wasn't the original Breakthru the game where you had to answer usually 1 then 2 then 3 questions to knock out three 'bricks' in a 'wall' with the brick at the top of the wall then being an additional prize question for usually 1 or 2 quid?

Breakthru may have been similar to (and was likely to have been the inspiration for) Trailblazer which fits your description. From around 1987.

1, 2 then 3 bricks - that was pretty much the default mode. When the machine had been 'busted', it was possible to see columns with 1, 9, 9 configurations whereupon you'd be blasted with lots of record label questions! There was however a bug which allowed the trickster to make those columns all nice again. It involved some 'Foxy-like fiddling', if I can put it that way. At a certain point in the game, you had to switch the machine off. When it came back on, hey presto, more palatable 1, 2, 3 column offerings or thereabouts.

However, this didn't prevent a playing comrade of mine at the time from literally 'busting' the machine by fisting it so hard that he shattered the screen and exited sharply ... probably too many record label questions.

Nil Satis · Post by **Nil Satis** » Sun Nov 11, 2007 6:37 pm

That's the game, and I do remember both the 'Magic Square' and the much harder 1,9,9 configurations. My original point however was that for 'SKILL4PRIZES' to claim that the recent reissue was the "exact same game format" was at best disingenous and at worst a blatant lie.

SKILL4PRIZES · Post by **SKILL4PRIZES** » Thu Nov 22, 2007 4:23 pm

Hold on Nil. I did not make any blatant lie. Our Quiz Breakthru rework DID follow the format of the orginal. We fired up the original circuit board at Coinmaster with an ancient monitor and copied the format of the game into the 'Old Skool' version for JPM and Gamesnet terminals. It was other similar games such as Trailblazer, Cash Quest, Question Time e.t.c that had the other features mentioned. No lies, just confusion and a bad memory on your part Mr. Nil. Our Quiz Master was different from the orginal, but then I also said that :-)

cool · Post by **cool** » Thu Nov 22, 2007 11:28 pm

it followed the same format just an incredible number of difficult questions to win a trifling amount. it should be an incredibleamountofskillrequiredfor skill4direprizes.

SKILL4PRIZES · Post by **SKILL4PRIZES** » Fri Nov 23, 2007 2:12 pm

The game ran to 30% just like all other SWP's, so the number of questions varied from just a few to many. If the games didn't have to run so tight, then the number of questions would be even less, so perhaps focus your 'moodyness' ;-) at those that decide the games should run at a 30% payout.

QuizMaster · Post by **QuizMaster** » Fri Nov 23, 2007 2:57 pm

This is getting boring now.

So has your game by the way.

SKILL4PRIZES · Post by **SKILL4PRIZES** » Fri Nov 23, 2007 3:37 pm

I agree.

It's a shame that trying to respond with accurate information and trying to have a decent conversation so often becomes childish nonsense on forums. Ahhh well.... have a good weekend.

Nil Satis · Post by **Nil Satis** » Fri Nov 23, 2007 4:28 pm

SKILL4PRIZES wrote:Hold on Nil. I did not make any blatant lie. Our Quiz Breakthru rework DID follow the format of the orginal. We fired up the original circuit board at Coinmaster with an ancient monitor and copied the format of the game into the 'Old Skool' version for JPM and Gamesnet terminals. It was other similar games such as Trailblazer, Cash Quest, Question Time e.t.c that had the other features mentioned. No lies, just confusion and a bad memory on your part Mr. Nil. Our Quiz Master was different from the orginal, but then I also said that :-)

I accept there may be confusion as to the exact game I was talking about, for which I apologise, although to be fair the memories of others on here seemed to back me up. All I can say is that I remember two 'Old Skool' games that came out a year or so ago. One was definitely an attempt to recreate QuizMaster and the other reminded me greatly of a game that I remembered as Breakthru, where the aim was to knock out "bricks" in a "wall".

I have played the machines from the beginning and remember this early game with great fondness and so I was excited to see what I thought was a reissue of the early game. What I in fact discovered was that completing a brick only moved you very slowly along a sliding scale, rather than being a recognisable and finite event, i.e. with a prize brick at the top of every set of three. I may be wrong about the name of this game (it was 20 years ago after all!) but I definitely remembered the game that the 'Old Skool' reissue was attempting to replicate and it was nothing like as good.

To resolve the issue of the exact names of the two games I guess we would need to see some screen shots (if you have them).

The more general point I would make to those like you who are developing games is that you really should try to revisit the old games. I accept that the graphics may need updating but the gameplay itself was often hugely better than on many current games. They were usually simple, clear and progressive and didn't require the sort of silly tricks that many more recent games rely on.

Finally, I hope you won't be put off from reading and posting on here. Personally I find this Forum refreshingly free of the sort of juvenile insults and name-calling that you find on many similar places. In another contrast to similar Forums, I find one can actually read and understand about 99% of the posts on here, which certainly helps an old git like me who was brought up on the importance of grammar and spelling!

All the best,

NS

cool · Post by **cool** » Sat Nov 24, 2007 9:12 am

the 30% arguement is irrelevant . I dont believe that a quiz machine is tested thousands of times to see what its payout percentage is. Its dependent upon the standard of the person playing it.How can you prove it you cant.As Ive stated before if somebody like me can make aliving from swps and somebody whose name I wont mention empties them for vanity it holds no water. Because you are wrong its no use in stating that the contributors to this website are childish. Its not often that the contributors to this site are united in agreement and who is the casual observer likely to believe the player or the person who who has the product and has a vested interest in saying how great it was. I would be surprised if you were actually allowed in pubs in the 1980's when the original quizmaster and breakthru existed - bet you never even played one!

QuizMaster · Post by **QuizMaster** » Sat Nov 24, 2007 10:08 am

I see they've added some new quizzes to this site. Which are basically the same thing with a different category. Just played the Entertainment one:

Staked 50p, got every question right to get to the prize board and 'won' 33p

So I didn't make any mistakes and I lost 17p. Is that actually legal for a bookmaker to do?

And It's Hugh Laurie not Lawrie
And it's Kiefer, not Keifer Sutherland

I'm surprised you didn't spell 'quiz' wrong, there are so many typos in this.

JG · Post by JG » Sat Nov 24, 2007 2:44 pm

Beep 5p
Beep 5p
Beep 15p
Beep 5p
Beep 3p

Try playing £5000 a pop!

Beep bloop blarp bleep blippety bloopa bloopety bleep blip blip blop bloopy bleeep blippety-bloop beep bloop blarp Beep bloop blarp bleep blippety bloopa bloopety bleep blip blip blop bloopy bleeep blippety-bloop beep bloop blarp Beep bloop blarp bleep blippety bloopa bloopety bleep blip blip blop bloopy bleeep blippety-bloop beep bloop blarp Beep bloop blarp bleep blippety bloopa bloopety bleep blip blip blop bloopy bleeep blippety-bloop beep bloop blarp Beep bloop blarp bleep blippety bloopa bloopety bleep blip blip blop bloopy bleeep blippety-bloop beep bloop blarp Beep bloop blarp bleep blippety bloopa bloopety bleep blip blip blop bloopy bleeep blippety-bloop beep bloop blarp Beep bloop blarp bleep blippety bloopa bloopety bleep blip blip blop bloopy bleeep blippety-bloop beep bloop blarp Beep bloop blarp bleep blippety bloopa bloopety bleep blip blip blop bloopy bleeep blippety-bloop beep bloop blarp

You 'win' £3800

Perfect round! Cheers!

That said it is an enjoyable game, the end game just doesn't fill me with confidence.