Word Up Tournament

[Guest]

lol

[Istenem]

1/ He [Bob] is clearly the best player in the country - sorry UP, but it would seem obvious that you can only beat Bob on an off day

i couldn't agree more. imo Bob is on a different level to any other individual at word up.

I thought I saw a score called "unknown" at number 35 or so?

not me]
They're a help because they're mostly super-smart maths post-grads to whom thinking logically in order to solve problems is second nature (the kind of thinking that makes you succeed in chess, poker, mind games in general).
[/quote]

a game of word up is hardly akin to mapping the lie group e8.
i'm too simple to even chalk darts but i can clear the WU grid. mathematical acuity is irrelevant.
if Bob/Ernest/Fotherz had not been in the team, i doubt that even 100 boffins would be able to clear it, let alone get 2000+

[jonesey]

I agree with UP re irrelevance of mathematical acuity. I did my first degree in maths, and suspect that might be the reason why I wonder about arcana like 'the number of possible 'words' [permutations of letters] that could theoretically be played on a full grid, or objective measures of ability to allow for differences in grids; but don't think it helps me at all in the game itself.

Then again, having studied maths doesn't mean I've necessarily got any mathematical acuity....

[Nil Satis]

Could someone just clarify, for a simple soul like myself, whether this whole thread means that

(a) the small group of top Word Up players on here are using multiple pseudonyms and borrowed/newly purchased mobile phone numbers to post many top scores on the tournament?

or

(b) the small group of top players on here have a group of friends (mainly former students) who don't normally play Word Up but who have been attracted by the cash prizes here and have the innate ability to post big scores for the tournament, even without the daily practice of the regular top players?

or

(c) there are some completely unknown players out there who are very good but who have never crossed the threshold of Bob's site?

Option (c) seems implausible given that there is always visible evidence of a high score on Word Up (unlike most quiz games) and even if you don't post a name it is clear that someone has scored 2000+ on a machine at some point, until the next reset at least.

Option (b) is possible I suppose but I would support the view that you can't simply transfer acute skills at something like chess or maths into a word game like Word Up. Scrabble might be different I accept but on the whole this option doesn't seem that likely.

Which leaves option (a) and, particularly in the light of the storm brewing about cheating on Millionaire (the TV show not the game), have you considered the need for multiple postal addresses, or have you simply got a lot of friends happy to receive and bank a cheque on your behalf?

I can understand if you would prefer to keep the answers to my questions private, and as a low 1000s scorer I am never going to be a threat to any scheme, but I am genuinely intrigued as to what is going on here.

[cool]

Fellow runner Professor Gareth Jones is a professor of mathematics and to my knowledge he hasnt been skimming the word ups in my locality !

[grecian]

My understanding was it was more (a) than any other option, NS.

[Nil Satis]

If so, and that is my suspicion as well, all I would say is be very careful if you are considering anything like this. The storm re Millionaire I refer to regards allegations made in stories in the Sunday Mirror over the last two weeks regarding organised 'cheating' of various sorts having taken place over several years. Clearly with regards to that case nothing has been proved yet, still less anyone been convicted of anything, but it might make the machine companies a lot more rigorous in checking how prizes for something like this tournament are distributed.

On a more general point, as I think QuizMaster is implying, any organised scheme to collect multiple prizes could end both Word Up as a game and also any future national tournaments for other games. QuizMaster's phrase about the Golden Egg would seem very apt in that case.

As I said, be very careful guys...

[Ernest W. Quality]

i'm too simple to even chalk darts but i can clear the WU grid. mathematical acuity is irrelevant. if Bob/Ernest/Fotherz had not been in the team, i doubt that even 100 boffins would be able to clear it, let alone get 2000+

I agree with UP re irrelevance of mathematical acuity.

I claim that analytical (or tactical if you prefer) thinking is very important to this game. Mathematical ability is often related.

In any case, I didn't say these people were regular 2000+ players, just that they were valuable helpers rather than hindrances. More than helpers in fact. Reaps hardly ever plays now, and cannot get good scores on his own, but me and him together get consistently better scores than me on my own. Does this make him a good player or not?

(a), (b), or (c)

Your options are not quite sufficient. (b) is closest. (c) is also certainly happening, since there are more than a few scores/pubs/names in the top 50 I don't recognise at all.

Option (c) seems implausible given that there is always visible evidence of a high score on Word Up (unlike most quiz games)

The evidence is only visible if you see it. We only know of scores that we have seen, or been sent by other FC people who've seen them. When we initially began touring other towns than Cambridge, we found that there were a lot of very good players around, and in most cases had never heard of them before. There are also "known" benign players, for example Bob's brother, who is an excellent player and his best solo score is 2100+ but hardly ever plays, and almost only with Bob (see earlier on this thread).

Option (b) is possible I suppose but I would support the view that you can't simply transfer acute skills at something like chess or maths into a word game like Word Up. Scrabble might be different I accept but on the whole this option doesn't seem that likely.

I did not say these people were ONLY good at chess/bridge etc, I advanced that only as an explanation why they might have a natural flair for skill games. They have also played considerable amounts of Word Up in the past few years, but mostly only when the VB hardcore are present, which is increasingly less often since some of us have left university. As I said above, they do not play solo, but they are still good players.

[cool]

surely the number one reason that somebody is good at wu as they are good at trivia machines is the number of plays as well as the continuity of play. At the very highest level natural abilty may have an influence. Perhaps a Cambridge scholar will release a paper on the influence of mathematical ability on Word Up and if they do let us know. Talking about helps and hindrances if their is a woman who is helpful to VB other than to get the drinks or to hang his coat on Ill be amazed!

[Istenem]

i'd suggest it is A with a little bit of B. i'd be surprised if C is very prominent, especially as all the venues in the top 50 are all within the known hunting grounds of the core Bobs and no superstars had previously been encountered there (with the exception of DaveJon, to a lesser extent myself and a couple of others at my level or below).

the t&cs say that "mobile numbers must be unique to the player" we will see how this is interpreted. there is potential for a localized bonanza but leisurelink do have some pedigree in arrogant profiteering.

and as i said at the start of the thread

i just hope it is not the knell for what is still a very good game.

the beans/cow is a nice analogy

[angie]

It's option (a) all the way guys, there's no point in even trying to suggest that a number of VBob's friends would be able to bang in 2050+ scores largely unaided.

Today I got a mid-1800 playing with Liam. He was looking out for possible mid-sized words, found BREVITY and entered it himself. This was a useful word that probably turned my score from a high-1700 into a mid-1800 in the final analysis. He does not, however, have the experience to get anywhere near a decent clearance by himself, and 90% of the words in that game were still entered by me. I suspect that this is along the lines of what's happened in the scores attributed to VBob's friends.

I also have no idea why chess, bridge and poker skills (as opposed to Scrabble skills - that's a different matter) are considered relevant to being a 2050+ WU player! (the same can be said about which university you went to). These things may indicate that a player will have better potential for the game, but potential will only get you so far (I would guess 1200 non-clears, maybe some hacked 1600 clears). It's learning the nuances of the game that will propel a player towards 2050+ and that needs hours of practice however much potential a player has. All VBob's friends clearly do not have this level of experience, so I can't believe that they would be able to participate significantly (much beyond the 'BREVITY'-type level of contribution) in any of the scores on the tournament top-50 leaderboard.

[Guest]

You lot still have difficulty understanding the nature of our team. For a start, the 'vajinalbob' name refers to a group of people, rather than an individual - hence 'VAJINALBOB the Word Up mafia,' as on our website (not mafioso). There are many VBOB scores that were achieved with NO involvement from me. I used the name for solo play (when I was bumming around places - to spread the word) and for this forum (as I was the first from the team to register here).

The VB team also predates my involvement. As Ernest has said, there was a serious group of WUppers before I even knew about the game. Ernest, Reaps, chess captain H (who was good at it without the 1000 hrs' practice - yes, it can be done, Angie :wink and a bunch of interested hangers-on were already playing it before I turned up at Cambridge (and thus trump me for experience). Later on, we took on notable recruits such as Fotherz, the Scrabble champ, a countdown champ, my bro (who has far less experience but outstanding word-spotting ability) and yet more mathmos who work with Ernest (who, doubtless being all top 1% IQ, are usefully logical, quick thinkers - I think success at the game is primarily determined by natural speed of thought).

The whole idea is to have a 'Word Up mafia' - ie. an ever-increasing motley gang (our motto: 'gather together the usual suspects') of skilled word up assassins. We've made it our business to find and recruit talent and develop it so it can help us in our mission (it's no good having to carry people on the day) - hence my once constant nagging at DJ for a rendez-vous (ie. to get them on board :shock .

Recruiting has not been a problem in Cambs, as there are plenty of enthusiasts and a number of indepedently reared rival posses eg. the two Peterhouse teams (cf the 'other teams' section on our site). We could gather around 30 keen players with playing experience from around the university (we have even considered starting up an inter-college league, given the interest). The game gets so much kudos at Cambs that we even have groupies there - to boot: groupies that are women ffs!!1!!111

To sum up: we could put out a third or forth string trio and still have any contenders flattened. Or, in other words: our 10th best member could beat your 1st best, Angie.

[angie]

"our 10th best member could beat your 1st best, Angie"...well the proof of the pudding will be in the eating, so I'm eagerly awaiting some 2150+ scores from VBob members outside of the usual crew (ARG/NFM/CF/SRG)!! The grand total to date is zero as far as I can tell.

(When I say 'Bob's friends' by the way, I mean friends of the big 3 (including EWQ and Craig), not just of yourself, Bob...).

I'm interested to hear of the feverish interest in the game in Cambridge - I imagine that kind of situation is fairly unique to Ox/Cam - certainly at Bristol there was no chance of creating a similar atmosphere. We weren't able to find enough (or indeed any) people who were really up for fighting tooth-and-nail over bragging rights in a wordsearch puzzle game!

PS You said the 2497 was based around QUIZZICALITIES - do we know if that's another new word in the vocab or had it just never been tried before? My first reaction was that it must be the new WR top scoring word, but some hurried maths gives me 784 - is that correct?

[Ernest W. Quality]

It's option (a) all the way guys, there's no point in even trying to suggest that a number of VBob's friends would be able to bang in 2050+ scores largely unaided.

Who said they were largely unaided? There's a middle ground between somebody getting 2050 completely on their own, and standing next to Bob while he gets 2050 for them.

Today I got a mid-1800 playing with Liam. ... and 90% of the words in that game were still entered by me. I suspect that this is along the lines of what's happened in the scores attributed to VBob's friends.

And similarly there is a middle ground between a player entering 10% of the words, and entering 90%. If you play carrying a noob, then you can't expect much contribution. That's why we don't play carrying noobs, unless we have identified the noobs as being genuinely useful.

I can't believe that they would be able to participate significantly (much beyond the 'BREVITY'-type level of contribution) in any of the scores on the tournament top-50 leaderboard.

Given that you used to play with ANDY, who has gone largely off the radar, and presumably therefore is either unable or unwilling to get good enough as a solo player to get top level scores, I am surprised that you can't see how somebody could be a very good component player within a pair or group of players, but not necessarily as good on their own. I'm sure Andy entered more than 10% of the words in your double-act.

Reaps, for example, is analogous to Andy. He was a very important part of a group of players, but isn't very interested in becoming a top solo player, due to various commitments. If pushed he can be a pretty decent soloist (Reaps had many solo scores over 1800, before we even set up the national scoreboard, and before his long-time girlfriend moved into town, curtailing his activity ]I also have no idea why chess, bridge and poker skills (as opposed to Scrabble skills - that's a different matter) are considered relevant to being a 2050+ WU player! (the same can be said about which university you went to).[/quote]

Well as I said before, I just meant that this would seem to indicate they have a natural flair for analyzing tactics and such for games of skill and strategy, which means they would be more suited to learning the skills needed for WU. In my experience, of the many people we have attempted to train at WU over the years, those with the afore-mentioned skills have been the best and fastest learners, and I suspect that this is not a coincidence. But it's just my opinion.

I'm interested to hear of the feverish interest in the game in Cambridge - I imagine that kind of situation is fairly unique to Ox/Cam

I suppose so, it began with people going round other colleges leaving insulting scores on their board, and PETERHOUSE in particular went out to try and top some rivals' boards. They were very good spotters but hadn't developed tactics to build v long words or clear. That was the only thing stopping them from becoming a real rival to VB. There were similar groups at several other colleges, and a few low clearances at some, but they weren't as self-promoting as VB or PH. Dominating the Cambridge college scene was the beginning of VB.

PS You said the 2497 was based around QUIZZICALITIES - do we know if that's another new word in the vocab or had it just never been tried before?

I'm sure it was QUIZZICALITY, since Bob almost arsed it up by trying to use the 'Y'. I'm fairly certain we tried to make QUIZZICALITIES in the same session and failed, maybe that's why Bob is confused. We tried it in the old version ages ago.

[Istenem]

well i've staggered onto the leaderboard by playing what i would call inelegantly (i.e. making sure of a QUIZZ~ word and then going for 6+s).
anyway it defaulted my name (WOT NO BOB) to WORD UP, presumably because if you tried really hard, wot NO Bob, could be a little bit rude.

i may invest a few quid going for a better score but 2497 is way beyond my puny intellect.