Hopper sizes
reelman wrote:£400 between Jackpots ??? I don't think so.
Think about it ~ what about all the little wins of £40 and the like which you get between Jackpots. Add them all up, and the value of the jackpot, and you're well over the £400. In other words the machine would be paying out more than it was taking.
Truth is, they're programmed to pay out over a much longer period (£10,000+) and in terms of a percentage. This percentage payout can be altered by the keyholder within a certain range (72% upwards)
So, if a machine was set to pay out a percentage of say, it would aim to do this over a very long period. Obviously, when it pays out the jackpot, its actual payout percentage may have rised to 81% but the target of 80% remains for the machine to achieve, so it will actually payout short of 80% for a while.
A reasonable club machine will easily take £10,000 in a month, and if it were set up with a target of 80% would probably pay out in the region of £8,000 leaving £2,000 for the owner of the machine.
It is possible, inded quite common, for a machine not to have enough in the hoppres to covre a jackpot for a number of reasons.
1. A new machine to a site has not been filled with enough (tight owner) and jackpot is won shortly after.
2. Players continually ignore smallish wins ovre a long period, driving the actual percentage paid out down below its target. Onlly way for the machine to maintain its target therefor is to pay out a jackpot or 2 (not repeats)
3. When fitted with a note acceptor, there is a built in "lockout" whereby the machine will not accept notes once the amount of coins in the hopper fall to a certain level. This level varies for each manufacturer, but JPM for example is £270. The amount of coins in the hopper, on machines fitted with a note acceptor, generally hover around this "lockout" figure as people tend to keep inserting notes to get coins for use on other machines etc. However, as you can see, it is easy for example to be playing one of these machines with £50 already in the bank, and then to win the jackpot, giving a total win of £300. But if this were a JPM machine, fitted with a note acceptor, it is highly likely that it would have insufficient coins in the hopper to payout this win.
Hope this helps dispell some of the many myths that seem to exist
erm yes hang on I said £400 at the least, then said in most cases it is MUCH more, £400 applies to something like a big deal if you reforced it, I did not mean if you were taking wins, I quoted £400 as the least possible (apart from slam/rio grande which can do more than 1 pot).
As for your easy to go empty:
Situation 1 is unlkely, club machines are very rarely filled low, and are unlikely to be sited in a jp ready situation hence they will fill up before paying anyhow
Situation 2 when people dont take small wins, they are filling up the hopper so that when it pays the jp it does not go empty, even with afterplay. Forcing will not get you more than one jp in nearly all cases.
Situation 3 is also unlikely, if the notey is off on a jpm machine it still holds over £250, and jpm machines are not designed to pay afterplay from a pot, so over £250 win is very unlikely. Also if someone had just took £50, such that £50 was in the bank, the pot would not be paid in that situation, the only situation this applies to is if someone had been taking small wins etc. to build it up to £50 having not took the money out the bank the whole time which seems rather odd (might I add I NEVER see this style of play happening in 10 years from a single person who I have seen play jpm club machines)
So really imo all you have said about machines going empty is mostly rubbish, and of course yes over £10k they give out about £8k on 80% goes without saying!
Was just trying to offer some friendly advice. I suspect we are both saying the same things, but from a slightly different perspective, or in a dirrerent ways.
In your Situation 1, you suggest that club machines are very rarely filled low, and are unlikely to be sited in a jp ready situation hence they will fill up before paying anyhow ~ that implies the person siting the machine knows if it is about to pay out ? I didn't think that was possible ? surely they would be tipping off all their mates, and rake it in between them.
In your Situation 2, you say when people dont take small wins, they are filling up the hopper so that when it pays the jp it does not go empty, even with afterplay. Forcing will not get you more than one jp in nearly all cases ~ however, if it has a not acceptor, much of the money entered can be notes, silver, £2 or £1 coins, which I agree do fill the hopper, but the float level still tends to hover around the lockout mark, sometimes over it, and sometimes under it.
Situation 3 is also unlikely, if the notey is off on a jpm machine it still holds over £250, and jpm machines are not designed to pay afterplay from a pot, so over £250 win is very unlikely.
Unlikely yes, but when the notey is out, the machine (if its a JPM) is not necassarily holding over £250 ~ why would you think that ? It actually holds anywhere up to £270. It could just as easily be holding as little as £150.
I guess between us, we're suggesting your better off to only play a machine if the note acceptor is illuminated.
I ran an arcade in North London for 10 years with my brother, and I can guarantee you that machines can and do run empty, for all sorts of reasons.
Best regards
Reelman
Didn't mean to be confrontational with anybody ~ just trying to give a little back after many years on the other side.
In your Situation 1, you suggest that club machines are very rarely filled low, and are unlikely to be sited in a jp ready situation hence they will fill up before paying anyhow ~ that implies the person siting the machine knows if it is about to pay out ? I didn't think that was possible ? surely they would be tipping off all their mates, and rake it in between them.
In your Situation 2, you say when people dont take small wins, they are filling up the hopper so that when it pays the jp it does not go empty, even with afterplay. Forcing will not get you more than one jp in nearly all cases ~ however, if it has a not acceptor, much of the money entered can be notes, silver, £2 or £1 coins, which I agree do fill the hopper, but the float level still tends to hover around the lockout mark, sometimes over it, and sometimes under it.
Situation 3 is also unlikely, if the notey is off on a jpm machine it still holds over £250, and jpm machines are not designed to pay afterplay from a pot, so over £250 win is very unlikely.
Unlikely yes, but when the notey is out, the machine (if its a JPM) is not necassarily holding over £250 ~ why would you think that ? It actually holds anywhere up to £270. It could just as easily be holding as little as £150.
I guess between us, we're suggesting your better off to only play a machine if the note acceptor is illuminated.
I ran an arcade in North London for 10 years with my brother, and I can guarantee you that machines can and do run empty, for all sorts of reasons.
Best regards
Reelman
Didn't mean to be confrontational with anybody ~ just trying to give a little back after many years on the other side.
It is possible to know if it`s ready to pay if you have access to the meter readings, percentages etc.reelman wrote:
In your Situation 1, you suggest that club machines are very rarely filled low, and are unlikely to be sited in a jp ready situation hence they will fill up before paying anyhow ~ that implies the person siting the machine knows if it is about to pay out ? I didn't think that was possible ? surely they would be tipping off all their mates, and rake it in between them.
For example, most machines will give you readings for cash in/cash out, target percentage/actual percentage etc.
Say for example a £250 jackpot club machine has a cash in reading of £10,000 (it will actually give the figure in 10p units usually depending on the manufacturer) and a cash out figure of £7,750. Say the machine is set to a target percentage of 80%. This means that it is running at 77.5% and to achieve the 80% it has to pay out £250 soon.
This is just a general example and the machine can drift either way on the percentages - it doesn`t necessarily have to pay out exactly when it`s due.
Hope this clears things up a bit!
Yes what got me a bit riled was your "£400 between jp's, I don't think so" comment at the start of the post, which I stated as a minimum not the norm, bfm clubs take a few grand between pots, jpms over a grand in general bar red hot 6 and globals can be £10K+ if on a low setting.reelman wrote:Was just trying to offer some friendly advice. I suspect we are both saying the same things, but from a slightly different perspective, or in a dirrerent ways.
In your Situation 1, you suggest that club machines are very rarely filled low, and are unlikely to be sited in a jp ready situation hence they will fill up before paying anyhow ~ that implies the person siting the machine knows if it is about to pay out ? I didn't think that was possible ? surely they would be tipping off all their mates, and rake it in between them.
In your Situation 2, you say when people dont take small wins, they are filling up the hopper so that when it pays the jp it does not go empty, even with afterplay. Forcing will not get you more than one jp in nearly all cases ~ however, if it has a not acceptor, much of the money entered can be notes, silver, £2 or £1 coins, which I agree do fill the hopper, but the float level still tends to hover around the lockout mark, sometimes over it, and sometimes under it.
Situation 3 is also unlikely, if the notey is off on a jpm machine it still holds over £250, and jpm machines are not designed to pay afterplay from a pot, so over £250 win is very unlikely.
Unlikely yes, but when the notey is out, the machine (if its a JPM) is not necassarily holding over £250 ~ why would you think that ? It actually holds anywhere up to £270. It could just as easily be holding as little as £150.
I guess between us, we're suggesting your better off to only play a machine if the note acceptor is illuminated.
I ran an arcade in North London for 10 years with my brother, and I can guarantee you that machines can and do run empty, for all sorts of reasons.
Best regards
Reelman
Didn't mean to be confrontational with anybody ~ just trying to give a little back after many years on the other side.
Without wanting to go further into this lol, your reply to situation 1, that the owner would have to know, not really, bearing in mind long jp cycles, it is unlikely the machine will be put in jp ready anyhow. In terms of situation 2, I have had thousands of jps on £250 machines with or without note acceptors and they have very rarely gone empty. JPM's would generally not have only £150 in them also if they were jp ready as they generally take quite a bit since the last sizable win to give a pot.
You've been at the other side of the game, I've been playing it lol :P
ob has played more clubbers than me, by all accounts ! *hats off*
"If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?"