How can this be?

[ma71lda]

At the final table of a $4 MTT with only 7 of us left.

I'm in 7th place with 43k, the chip leader has 120k in chips, the rest have 50-90k.

I'm dealt K,K out of position (not that it matters), the chip leader raises 20k, I go all in - he calls and everyone else folds. A 92k pot (inc blinds) and he turns over 3, 2 off suit.

Get in!!

The flop comes down 3,3,2. Unreal.

But thats Laddies for you. Yes, I made money but there was a feeling of what could have been.

Does this constitute as a bad beat??!!

[JG]

Nope, sorry, we can't give you bad beat on that one. If you'd had a set and he'd had a pair of 2s, then the turn 2, river 2. Bad beat. Lowest range of bad beat tends to be one boat beaten by a better boat (subject to terms and conditions). Obvious examples of bad beats are quads crushed by straight flush. Usually associated with huuuugeness beaten by even spawnier hugeeeeeness to use fruit lingo that seems fashionable in these forums at the moment. Runner runner also is a bad beat.

So trips on flop and he has backdoor flush (no other obv draws let's say) and he hits. That's a bad beat. Just. I think.


What you experienced was a 'feckin' annoying suckout by a jammy irritant'. Rather frustrating, but take it on the chin, at least you cashed in. Good work. Nothing you could do there.

[pokerpete]

Don't be ridiculous JG

K,K losing to 2,3 when all in preflop is a bad beat.
It's 85% - 15%
the worst you could ever be preflop is KK v K2 which is 93% v 5% (2% split)

It's not 'typical Laddies' it's variance.

[JG]

Ridiculousnissisisstinessness is my middle name.

Yep, I contradicted myself there. I disallowed bad beat then said 'runner runner' makes a bad beat. Well it looks like he had his fair share of runners, so ok, I'll allow bad beat status, just this once. Remember 3,2 will beat K,K about 1 in 6.5 times. So it's only like betting your stack on a die not rolling a ONE and in rolls the ONE. So it's a mild bad beat, very mild, very tame in fact. If it were a cheese, it would only score one on the bad beat scale of flavour.

Actually seeing as he made his house, which is ireelevant but irksome, I'll give it a 2 on the mad beat scale.

[pokerpete]

my point was that heads up, preflop you're rarely more than 9/2 favourite.

People complain about bad beats but don't really understand variance.
under pair will beat over pair MORE than 1 in 5 times.
2,3 has a better chance against over pair than underpair.
A,A v suited connectors is only about 3/1 so a minimum raise gives this hand proper odds to call almost every time

[harry2]

It's bloody annoying though when you've been sitting there for four hours and that happens though. If it was first hand you would almost laugh it off. 7th place is still only about 2-3% of the pool.

[pokerpete]

try feeding a family on the out come

worst day of my life, I was 3 months into the worst run of my life. I was scrapping a living in small live cash games and online STTs but previously it'd been live MTTs that had provided most of my money and that had provided for my family following a reduncancy (with no payout)

I needed a hit soon. Finally I'd had a tourney where I'd won all my coin flips, got all my bluffs through, hit all my draws. It was only a £50 game but the field was fairly deep and 1st prize was about £3k.

14 players left and me and one other player have 50% of the chips in play between us. None of the other remaining players were the decent regular players. All I had to do was cruise to the final table and use my experience to pick off the short stacks faster than the other big stack who was a relatively tight player so would probably fall behind me.

Just then the other big stack raises 4xBB UTG. it passes round to me on the button. I look down at A,A. I was basically passing everything except that and KK. even AK and QQ were going in the muck in that situation against that player. I re-raised 16xBB trying to send a clear message that he was in a hand with the only player in the tourney that could hurt him and he should pass. Instead he pushed all in.

Obviously I have to call. He had QQ. I flopped trip aces. he rivered a straight.

Now, I don't expect any sympathy. As I've said, beats happen. I'm 9/2 favourite but AA has to loose sometimes. It's a truely terrible bad beat because
a) over pair loosing to under pair is a beat anyway
b) It's on the back of a 3 month run of no final tables, when I'd normally make 1 or 2 finals a week when running good. The bad run actually lasted about 9 months
c) If I win that hand I have 50% of the chips in play and can cruise to 1st
d) I have a family needs feeding, amortgage that needs paying and many other bills coming in
e) the worst kick in the teeth is that the mug played like an idiot and went out in 9th, bluffing off MY chips

In all seriousness, I don't want any sympathy for the bad beat. I thought I'd get it off my chest because it's why I get REALLY annoyed about people moaning about their one off bad beats in small stake online games, why I get REALLY annoyed when people say online poker is rigged, just because they loose a couple of hands and why I know from exprience that gambling for a living, even in a game of skill where you have an edge, is a very high risk business and most people will fail trying.

Poker, like fruit machines is a VERY hard way to make an easy living.

...and relax

[ma71lda]

Did you get paid out on 14th place pokerpete?

Horrible way to exit mate. My exit pales in comparison when you consider the cost of buying-in. Plus, with approx 30 players left in the tourny I was in 29th place, therefore making the final table was a moral victory in itself.

As a novice I'm only playing for small stakes until I make a nice bankroll. Today I entered a ladder game for $3 and I've reached level 4, which would cost $100 to buy in. It pays top 3 - 1st $500, 2nd $300, 3rd $200. Watch me come 4th!!

Now its a waiting game for the table to fill up.

[ma71lda]

I came 2nd and won $300.

Probably would have won if I had more heads-up experience as I had 70% of chips heads-up, tips anyone?

I had the 3rd place player thrwing abuse at me when I knocked him out as well. He went all in with a pair of 10's, and I had him covered in chips with A,9 in the hole. I pondered what to do, then my g/f used this analogy 'would I be happy with $200 (3rd place) it would be like putting £1.50 in a fruity and winning £100', true so I called.

And hit an Ace.

The guy then starts spouting off, hurling abuse and swearing at me! Then he must have found out I'm from Manchester and tyes in MUNICH 58, cool, I'm a scouser ffs.

I genuinely believe I had every right to call him 3 handed with A, 9. Its history now and I'm £150 richer than I was this morning.

Roll on tomorrow.

[pokerpete]

I used to play those ladbrokes ladders for my main income.

I'd play level 1 and 2 during the day, level 3s in the evenings and save my level 4s up til the weekends. Best weekend I ever had was winning 4 level 4s in a single sitting $2000, ship it.

That was before the bad run. Was playing £200 buy in live games and finalling regularly. family had what they wanted, I was living the life. I was about ready to make the move up to festivals. Then the bad run came.

12 months later I couldn't hit the final table of a £30 novice tournament if I threw a chair at it.

Poker is only for the strong of heart, because long term, the beats will get you down if you're not of the right constitution.

[fruitypie]

I came 2nd and won $300.

Probably would have won if I had more heads-up experience as I had 70% of chips heads-up, tips anyone?

I had the 3rd place player thrwing abuse at me when I knocked him out as well. He went all in with a pair of 10's, and I had him covered in chips with A,9 in the hole. I pondered what to do, then my g/f used this analogy 'would I be happy with $200 (3rd place) it would be like putting £1.50 in a fruity and winning £100', true so I called.

And hit an Ace.

The guy then starts spouting off, hurling abuse and swearing at me! Then he must have found out I'm from Manchester and tyes in MUNICH 58, cool, I'm a scouser ffs.

I genuinely believe I had every right to call him 3 handed with A, 9. Its history now and I'm £150 richer than I was this morning.

Roll on tomorrow.

a9 is a monster 3 handed.Ok you was behind,But it was the correct call as you found out.What hands can you wait for at that stage ? I would push with any pp or 87 89 connectors etc and picture cards ,You dont have any choice as blinds will be massive. Also if you have pot odds at that stage then you must call with any two cards. even 72 . As for heads up with 70 percent chips, I would push every hand and let them make the choice. If they get back to even chips,Then still be agressive but do fold the trash and allways push when they flat call pre flop. You will win more than you lose then.

[ma71lda]

You're right the blinds were getting steep plus I was already quids in and happy, what are people expected to do - wait for aces or kings, if thats the case players may as well roll over and give in.

If I ever reach a heads-up situation again I most definitley will be more aggressive.

Cheers.