Parking fine ... is this legal?

[Cardinal Sin]

Evening.

A couple of months ago I was in Kilmarnock. I parked in a private pay and display car park for less than 5 minutes while I went to the bank. When I came back, the parking attendant guy was standing beside my car about to write a ticket. I told him I'd only been a few seconds, so he told me to put a quid in the machine and he'd let me off with it. I did so, and I thanked him and went on my way, commenting to my sister what a nice chap he was.

I thought nothing more about it till today, when I got a letter thru the post from "Parking Ecosse", informing me I'd basically got a ticket. Despite this being the first letter I got, they told me the fine was going up to £40 (from £25), and to pay it within 14 days or they'll take legal action.

Now what I reckon has happened is the parking warden guy couldn't be arsed with an argument (not that I would have given much of one since I was in the wrong), so he pretended not to give the ticket, then just wrote it out when I drove off. However, I feel justified in not paying up since I paid for a ticket (which I don't have any more!).

So what I want to know is this: Is this debt legally enforceable? Quite apart from the letter which looks like it was knocked up on someone's colour printer, the address looks as if it's a flat in Irvine. The fact that I never received the first letter (which would have allowed me to pay the fine at a reduced rate), it all seems quite fishy. However, it is a legit company (and they shouldn't have got my address otherwise) - but are these companies allowed to demand money like this? And are they required to provide proof, or is it just enough for them to say my car was there.

Just so you know, I'd rather go to debtor's prison and get bum-raped by OJ Simpson than pay this debt, I'm just wondering where I stand legally (and I'm too much of a tightarse to pay for real legal help!)

Cheers folks!

[Matt Vinyl]

Hmm, interesting...

Not sure where you would stand legally, and it's a shame you no longer have the ticket. Although - you can't be blamed for that, as after you'd bought the ticket and driven off, you had no reason to think anything more about it.

Even at this 'early' stage, it sounds like it'll progress to a 'you against the system' problem, and we know who usually wins in that case...

It may sound like a 'flagpole out of a matchstick' situation, but you need to think if there was CCTV in the carpark etc, that might have captured the incident.

Hope it goes in your favour though, whatever happens. Just a shame that there's probably no 'proof' either way...

[Istenem]

i'm afraid you might have to take this on the chin YE, if it was a private carpark they can enforce it as they please. had you been on council property you could have written a letter in terms which would baffle whichever lowly civil servant read it and in my experience (admittedly in a different area) it gets repealed and they blame ambiguous circumstances so as not to draw attention to what cowboys they are.

if privately-owned (you'd imagine) it runs purely for financial gain, what the attendant did was dishonest and profiteering but these people are not employed for their integrity. it is probably worth writing a stern letter about their phantom first letter and questioning the professionalism of the nice chap you met in kilmarnock, explaining that you were in the right all along and urging them to give you the "courtesy of a reply in relation to the grievances raised herein". if you kick and scream enough you can often get away with minor infringements but is it worth the effort?

but i'm not a lawyer so i don't know.

[mattrick]

Evening.

A couple of months ago I was in Kilmarnock. I parked in a private pay and display car park for less than 5 minutes while I went to the bank. When I came back, the parking attendant guy was standing beside my car about to write a ticket. I told him I'd only been a few seconds, so he told me to put a quid in the machine and he'd let me off with it. I did so, and I thanked him and went on my way, commenting to my sister what a nice chap he was.

I thought nothing more about it till today, when I got a letter thru the post from "Parking Ecosse", informing me I'd basically got a ticket. Despite this being the first letter I got, they told me the fine was going up to £40 (from £25), and to pay it within 14 days or they'll take legal action.

Now what I reckon has happened is the parking warden guy couldn't be arsed with an argument (not that I would have given much of one since I was in the wrong), so he pretended not to give the ticket, then just wrote it out when I drove off. However, I feel justified in not paying up since I paid for a ticket (which I don't have any more!).

So what I want to know is this: Is this debt legally enforceable? Quite apart from the letter which looks like it was knocked up on someone's colour printer, the address looks as if it's a flat in Irvine. The fact that I never received the first letter (which would have allowed me to pay the fine at a reduced rate), it all seems quite fishy. However, it is a legit company (and they shouldn't have got my address otherwise) - but are these companies allowed to demand money like this? And are they required to provide proof, or is it just enough for them to say my car was there.

Just so you know, I'd rather go to debtor's prison and get bum-raped by OJ Simpson than pay this debt, I'm just wondering where I stand legally (and I'm too much of a tightarse to pay for real legal help!)

Cheers folks!

Personally, i would write them a letter saying that the attendant came over and started writing the ticket while you were at the machine buying your pound ticket, when you came back to your car, he saw you and your pound ticket so didnt write the ticket.

Its your word against his, and he sounds like a lying mischevious little shithouse anyway.

If they pursue it go to CAB.

[theoak]

Maybe HE made an honest error and didn't 'cancel' it properly or whatever, you can ask them to speak to him and he may concur

[Cardinal Sin]

Cheers lads.

I've written a snooty email demanding photographic evidence as my starter for 10. I don't actually know if he had a camera or not, but my guess, judging by the shoddy operation they seem to run, that they don't.

And even if they did have a picture of my car, unless they have conclusive proof that I didn't buy a ticket, then I'll refuse to pay on the grounds that it's the parking attendants word against mine. As it stands, he could have simply noted down my reg plate as I drove past.

I would like to point out to the firm what a dodgy bastard the parking guy was, but at the moment, I don't even want to admit that I was in the car park.

I'll let you know if I receive a reply.

[theoak]

hmm, MAY have been better to give the whole story, now if they have proof of you parking there at all, you will look pretty fucked.

[Terry Tibbs]

Evening.

A couple of months ago I was in Kilmarnock. I parked in a private pay and display car park for less than 5 minutes while I went to the bank. When I came back, the parking attendant guy was standing beside my car about to write a ticket. I told him I'd only been a few seconds, so he told me to put a quid in the machine and he'd let me off with it. I did so, and I thanked him and went on my way, commenting to my sister what a nice chap he was.

I thought nothing more about it till today, when I got a letter thru the post from "Parking Ecosse", informing me I'd basically got a ticket. Despite this being the first letter I got, they told me the fine was going up to £40 (from £25), and to pay it within 14 days or they'll take legal action.

Now what I reckon has happened is the parking warden guy couldn't be arsed with an argument (not that I would have given much of one since I was in the wrong), so he pretended not to give the ticket, then just wrote it out when I drove off. However, I feel justified in not paying up since I paid for a ticket (which I don't have any more!).

So what I want to know is this: Is this debt legally enforceable? Quite apart from the letter which looks like it was knocked up on someone's colour printer, the address looks as if it's a flat in Irvine. The fact that I never received the first letter (which would have allowed me to pay the fine at a reduced rate), it all seems quite fishy. However, it is a legit company (and they shouldn't have got my address otherwise) - but are these companies allowed to demand money like this? And are they required to provide proof, or is it just enough for them to say my car was there.

Just so you know, I'd rather go to debtor's prison and get bum-raped by OJ Simpson than pay this debt, I'm just wondering where I stand legally (and I'm too much of a tightarse to pay for real legal help!)

Cheers folks!

No its completely wrong. I have to admit i haven't read all the post but the first paragraph stands you in good stead.

By law parking attendants must remain by the offending car for 5 minutes minimum before issuing a ticket. If you were less than 5 minutes then the ticket was issued illegally

[itsme]

fuck doing it the right way.... find him... crack him.... end off........ i hate things like this.

[bat_fink]

If he didn't actually issue you a ticket then where is it !!! without CCT evidence just get someone to say it wasn't you as you were elsewhere i.e. cloned car etc (works for bikes especially ).

[Nixxy]

By law parking attendants must remain by the offending car for 5 minutes minimum before issuing a ticket. If you were less than 5 minutes then the ticket was issued illegally

This is correct.

Also, if they're a council-run or council-appointed firm, they're very likely to see it all the way into court. If not, then court action is very rare as they usually cannot afford to lose, so they let it drop.

You need to make sure that you do not admit liability in any of your correspondence - and demand all the evidence they can possibly provide and see how they respond. Keep putting the ball back into their court and they'll eventually see the cost implication and give up.

[Drpepper]

Agreed with all of the above, my brother used to work on car parks, and he has to be there for 5 mins before he can legally issue a ticket.

He also said about the fact that if you didn't recieve the letter within 28 days you don't have to play it.

His friend got a ticket, and it was sent via recorded delivery, so he just refused to sign for it ... i think he got off too.

[Cardinal Sin]

Sent them an email yesterday (ecosseparking@aol.com ... very amateurish!).

I included the line "before I even begin to take you seriously, I require photographic evidence..." - which should really rile them up and make me come across as a right arsehole

If I don't hear from them by next week, I'm thinking of sending them a letter stating that since I've not heard from them, they obviously have no evidence. Therefore, what they are attempting is extortion, and as such, I will be reporting them to Ayrshire Council and the local polis.

Or is this pushing it a bit?

[theoak]

and what do you do when/iof they come back with photographic evidence? (i thought they all HAD to take photos now these days anyway?) you would THEN say? well, I was only gone 1 min, he said hed let me off? etc.

[Cardinal Sin]

I would then ask for proof that I didn't buy a ticket!

You should have seen the ramshackle nature of their operation though. I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't have a camera...


Oh, and Dr Pepper - have found a card from the PO saying I've got a letter for recorded delivery... I'll take a close look at the envelope before accepting - thanks mate!