Don't ask you how?redlinesman wrote:I know this for a fact, don't ask me how I know but I do.
Don't expect us to believe.
calling it a day , , , well sort of
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Noels Beard
ob, I really have tried to address all the points made against me. My last post was simply saying that painting me as some self-obsessed buffoon, who claims to work out a new trick whenever he wants, is just diluting the discussion of some very serious points.
Trayhops comments about how tricks/methods are discovered, are only serving to cheapen the value of the information everyone receives. Everything that constitutes your "standard playables" was discovered by an individual, and the speed at which this becomes common knowledge tells us a few things. Firstly, people give stuff away too cheaply, presumably because they do not want to miss out on the "next thing" that otherwise they may miss. Secondly, most fruit machine players are ridiculously untrustworthy, and will be furnishing several other groups of people with any info they receive. Thirdly, most fruit machine players are stupid, as they do not see that if everyone acts like themselves, the infornatiok is very soon back with your next door neighbour.
It's nice that trayhop is honest about not working anything out, he's also right that plenty of people who play fruits (many of whom have made a lot of money), never work anything out. All I'm saying is, that if you're unwilling to even try, in my opinion you have no justifiable place here.
If anyone has any genuine points, and not subtle digs about my personal situation (or perceived hypocrisy), I'm happy to answer them.
Trayhops comments about how tricks/methods are discovered, are only serving to cheapen the value of the information everyone receives. Everything that constitutes your "standard playables" was discovered by an individual, and the speed at which this becomes common knowledge tells us a few things. Firstly, people give stuff away too cheaply, presumably because they do not want to miss out on the "next thing" that otherwise they may miss. Secondly, most fruit machine players are ridiculously untrustworthy, and will be furnishing several other groups of people with any info they receive. Thirdly, most fruit machine players are stupid, as they do not see that if everyone acts like themselves, the infornatiok is very soon back with your next door neighbour.
It's nice that trayhop is honest about not working anything out, he's also right that plenty of people who play fruits (many of whom have made a lot of money), never work anything out. All I'm saying is, that if you're unwilling to even try, in my opinion you have no justifiable place here.
If anyone has any genuine points, and not subtle digs about my personal situation (or perceived hypocrisy), I'm happy to answer them.
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Marcossvon
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- Location: Wigan
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Ruler of The World
- Senior Member
- Posts: 2110
- Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2012 12:51 pm
This is going to come across as a weird post but I am going to post it anyway...
The entire point being argued about here appears to be rather like this: Jesus fed 5000 with a few fish and some bread, he knows he has performed a miracle and shared this food to feed the hungry but it seems as though those who were fed are claiming that they performed the miracle or at least had a say in it happening... what we don't seem to realise or accept comes into this and makes us reach our own conclusion over this debacle...
1. Has anyone actually SEEN Jesus feeding these people? I mean with their own eyes, witnessed this 'miracle'...?
2. Has anyone got evidence that this 'Jesus' did really live? And performed any miracles at all in their presence?
3. Why is it so widely accepted that this and the other miracles even happened?
I'll tell you why, because people believe in this stuff due to it being so widely known and got passed down through generations. In the modern era, however, no one would believe that anyone could feed 5000 people with 5 fish and 3 loaves of bread (or whatever it was), it would result in 'Jesus' being arrested or probably shot on sight by the FBI or CIA or whoever, if a video of the 'feeding' was made it would be dissected over and over again on the news, showing us how this COULDN'T possibly be true...and why and so on and so forth.
My point here is that you guys are not accepting that SOMEONE discovers things before all of the rest of you, in this case there may be a team rather than an individual who works most of the stuff we end up getting out, but it DOES pretty much come from 1 source - but you refuse to believe in this! It is as if, in a way, there is some jealousy associated with the whole thing like you're saying, "Well, what makes HIM so smart, that wasn't so hard to work out, its pretty basic!?" But YOU didn't work it out, regardless! I am not trying to draw a comparison between Jesus and Will here, nor am I saying that the person or people who work the bulk of stuff out are messiahs, I am just saying that rather than accept that it does indeed happen the way Will says, you argue over the FACT and seem to think that you are all too good as players yourselves to accept that someone else has come up with some things before you, perhaps that you would never have discovered in a million years!
It is a FACT that a trick/method could literally go from 1 person's brain to 1000 people's brains from a single phone call to the right blabber-mouths and that's why these tricks/methods MUST be kept quiet and within a select group so that it ensures it lasting a long time! Unfortunately, it eventually DOES get out in most cases and when it does, the masses are like hungry rats and form groups such as the Blackpool Scum Crew. Suddenly, the local invader who I would think I have the advantage over because he 'doesn't do what I do' is armed with the information I have had to myself for a while and not told anyone - and not only that, he now thinks he is SUPERIOR to me because I kept it quiet and didn't let him see me playing the machine in question even when he was in the same pub because I AM NOT STUPID - I know he knows I am a player and that he will attempt to watch! If you are really all so down right stupid to NOT accept that this is how things happen, then I pity you and I pity your spouses and children for having fools like you as mentors!
I am not saying for a moment that Will is "Mr. Top Dog" in the fruit machine world or that he by himself or via associates he has in this 'game' are the feeders of every piece of information we get, I am simply saying it DOES happen the way he says but you mostly seem to be saying it doesn't and appear to be trying to ridicule him and call him arrogant for making the very point I am making here. I don't know the guy, I don't have a clue what he has known before me or after me but I do know that things DO happen the way he is saying - that these tricks have a source and they gradually filter through various occurrences, phone calls, spying methods... down to the lower end of the hierarchy - the 'masses/rats' who have little or no intelligence, fire things up in pubs, TELL COMPLETE STRANGERS HOW TO DO WHAT THEY ARE DOING in the hope that they will 'get something back' and then have the audacity to complain when they get barred, get frozen out or end up on their arses (if not all 3). These people at the bottom refuse to accept that this is what happens and, by doing so, make themselves look very, very stupid. They also fail to realise that it is THEIR behaviour which then makes it 'fire' for the very people who inadvertently 'gave' them what they know to walk in to the next pub to do the fruit machine! If you asked most of these 'players' how or why they think a certain 'trick' they do works, I guarantee you they wouldn't have a clue about the logic behind it because they have just been taught like drones to repeat a process - which is why they can't survive without the information they are getting thanks to some big mouth! This is why they can be frozen out!
Lastly, being a professional in the fruit machine world is not about what you know, it is a about what you DO with what you know. If you go and rape a trick for every penny it is worth immediately because you are short of cash (I'm talking about when you know something that very few, if any, know here not your standard 24-hour empty) - then there is a good chance you will waste a good thing due to impatience and greed. To a true professional, it is about how much you take care, about how much you leave in a machine, who is around you, how you behave, etc. The most important thing to the true professional is not how much you make from a 'trick' - it is making it last and kept from 'the rats' - because, ultimately, they WILL destroy it and all the hard work that you do to preserve it is wasted, thanks to them. Imagine you knew something a week ago all by yourself and told 1 'close associate'... then walked into a pub with the local rats slaughtering the machine, extracting every pound in it blatantly without any regard for a local watching or anything... basically doing exactly what you WOULDN'T have been doing - how would you feel?
The entire point being argued about here appears to be rather like this: Jesus fed 5000 with a few fish and some bread, he knows he has performed a miracle and shared this food to feed the hungry but it seems as though those who were fed are claiming that they performed the miracle or at least had a say in it happening... what we don't seem to realise or accept comes into this and makes us reach our own conclusion over this debacle...
1. Has anyone actually SEEN Jesus feeding these people? I mean with their own eyes, witnessed this 'miracle'...?
2. Has anyone got evidence that this 'Jesus' did really live? And performed any miracles at all in their presence?
3. Why is it so widely accepted that this and the other miracles even happened?
I'll tell you why, because people believe in this stuff due to it being so widely known and got passed down through generations. In the modern era, however, no one would believe that anyone could feed 5000 people with 5 fish and 3 loaves of bread (or whatever it was), it would result in 'Jesus' being arrested or probably shot on sight by the FBI or CIA or whoever, if a video of the 'feeding' was made it would be dissected over and over again on the news, showing us how this COULDN'T possibly be true...and why and so on and so forth.
My point here is that you guys are not accepting that SOMEONE discovers things before all of the rest of you, in this case there may be a team rather than an individual who works most of the stuff we end up getting out, but it DOES pretty much come from 1 source - but you refuse to believe in this! It is as if, in a way, there is some jealousy associated with the whole thing like you're saying, "Well, what makes HIM so smart, that wasn't so hard to work out, its pretty basic!?" But YOU didn't work it out, regardless! I am not trying to draw a comparison between Jesus and Will here, nor am I saying that the person or people who work the bulk of stuff out are messiahs, I am just saying that rather than accept that it does indeed happen the way Will says, you argue over the FACT and seem to think that you are all too good as players yourselves to accept that someone else has come up with some things before you, perhaps that you would never have discovered in a million years!
It is a FACT that a trick/method could literally go from 1 person's brain to 1000 people's brains from a single phone call to the right blabber-mouths and that's why these tricks/methods MUST be kept quiet and within a select group so that it ensures it lasting a long time! Unfortunately, it eventually DOES get out in most cases and when it does, the masses are like hungry rats and form groups such as the Blackpool Scum Crew. Suddenly, the local invader who I would think I have the advantage over because he 'doesn't do what I do' is armed with the information I have had to myself for a while and not told anyone - and not only that, he now thinks he is SUPERIOR to me because I kept it quiet and didn't let him see me playing the machine in question even when he was in the same pub because I AM NOT STUPID - I know he knows I am a player and that he will attempt to watch! If you are really all so down right stupid to NOT accept that this is how things happen, then I pity you and I pity your spouses and children for having fools like you as mentors!
I am not saying for a moment that Will is "Mr. Top Dog" in the fruit machine world or that he by himself or via associates he has in this 'game' are the feeders of every piece of information we get, I am simply saying it DOES happen the way he says but you mostly seem to be saying it doesn't and appear to be trying to ridicule him and call him arrogant for making the very point I am making here. I don't know the guy, I don't have a clue what he has known before me or after me but I do know that things DO happen the way he is saying - that these tricks have a source and they gradually filter through various occurrences, phone calls, spying methods... down to the lower end of the hierarchy - the 'masses/rats' who have little or no intelligence, fire things up in pubs, TELL COMPLETE STRANGERS HOW TO DO WHAT THEY ARE DOING in the hope that they will 'get something back' and then have the audacity to complain when they get barred, get frozen out or end up on their arses (if not all 3). These people at the bottom refuse to accept that this is what happens and, by doing so, make themselves look very, very stupid. They also fail to realise that it is THEIR behaviour which then makes it 'fire' for the very people who inadvertently 'gave' them what they know to walk in to the next pub to do the fruit machine! If you asked most of these 'players' how or why they think a certain 'trick' they do works, I guarantee you they wouldn't have a clue about the logic behind it because they have just been taught like drones to repeat a process - which is why they can't survive without the information they are getting thanks to some big mouth! This is why they can be frozen out!
Lastly, being a professional in the fruit machine world is not about what you know, it is a about what you DO with what you know. If you go and rape a trick for every penny it is worth immediately because you are short of cash (I'm talking about when you know something that very few, if any, know here not your standard 24-hour empty) - then there is a good chance you will waste a good thing due to impatience and greed. To a true professional, it is about how much you take care, about how much you leave in a machine, who is around you, how you behave, etc. The most important thing to the true professional is not how much you make from a 'trick' - it is making it last and kept from 'the rats' - because, ultimately, they WILL destroy it and all the hard work that you do to preserve it is wasted, thanks to them. Imagine you knew something a week ago all by yourself and told 1 'close associate'... then walked into a pub with the local rats slaughtering the machine, extracting every pound in it blatantly without any regard for a local watching or anything... basically doing exactly what you WOULDN'T have been doing - how would you feel?
It's certainly an interesting issue, the distribution, unwanted or intended, of information.
If you're frequently getting onto new stuff early, then you're not too far away from top boy status. Hardly a mastermind statement.
Look, I'm a top boy myself. I'm currently doing Jail Breaks, Bank Job Golds and Go All the ways. There's also a full empty on East Wing West wing which is planned to be released to the masses on May 23rd 2013. The sources are often different though. I didn't want to reveal that I'm a top boy. But I am. So there.
If you're frequently getting onto new stuff early, then you're not too far away from top boy status. Hardly a mastermind statement.
Look, I'm a top boy myself. I'm currently doing Jail Breaks, Bank Job Golds and Go All the ways. There's also a full empty on East Wing West wing which is planned to be released to the masses on May 23rd 2013. The sources are often different though. I didn't want to reveal that I'm a top boy. But I am. So there.
JG
I think your missing the point, yes the trick has originated somewhere and been known by a select few etc who have carefully guarded it, thats common sense that any intelligent person would do, of course there are a lot of rats in this game who live day by day have no savings and will have no semblance of long run thoughts hence just blurt things out.
What I'm saying is will/linesman etc like to come across like they are thus top end lot and work things out blah de blah, but anyone can say that on a message board and as such there is little reason for anyone that doesn't know them to believe them.
What I'm saying is will/linesman etc like to come across like they are thus top end lot and work things out blah de blah, but anyone can say that on a message board and as such there is little reason for anyone that doesn't know them to believe them.
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The Dark Horse
- Senior Member
- Posts: 282
- Joined: Fri May 20, 2011 6:01 am
- Location: London
If there is a fruit machine illuminati that is on every new trick early it's very unlikely it's due to Will "getting under the skin of the program" or Redlinesmans "advanced security tactics". Common sense and logic dictates if one elite group really was on every trick early like they claim it could be due to nothing other than having a direct connection to the industry. This would mean they are getting spoon fed the information directly in a similar manner to the players at the bottom they are belittling. There is no other way it would be possible to be on EVERY new thing.
I mentioned before my dislike for the "we're all somewhere in a chain" attitude. I think a lot of players like Lee discredit their own intelligence by thinking that everything has to be told to them. A lot of intelligent players live in this "chain" system due to nothing other than their own attitude. I know this because my own attitude to machines at different times in my playing career has affected whether I've worked things out or not.
In my early playing days (2001-2004) I was a rubbish player looking back but I still managed to work a few things out here and there, although they were always squandered and never maximised. The only reason I was able to work things out was because I was highly addicted to playing machines, I'd stay out from when I woke up around midday until the pubs closed 6 days a week. I couldn't stick to playing things I'd been shown which usually lead to losses but very occasionally meant I stumbled on things, however due having always been treated as the new player/cluey in my group at the time I sought validification by telling my creator straight away and asking for help to perfect methods. This means I didn't really feel like I'd worked things out because I never did that well off anything i had, as soon as I shared with the group my information would be slung into "the chain" and the credit usually taken by someone else who used it as leverage to get information returned. This seems harsh but I guess it was fair enough, the things I did best off were usually things I was spoon fed and I was too dumb to realise the potential of the snippets I gave away.
In my second period (2005-208) my lifestyle changed dramatically and along with it my attitude to machines. I was single so this meant socialising and going to the gym took place of importance over machines which became nothing more than a means to an end. I had no urge to play anything I didn't know the full script for, I hated playing machines and working stuff out seemed like a costly waste of time. My focus changed to bettering my play, keeping accounts, being up at 9 and treating it very much like a job. I stopped speaking to my original group but I still spoke to a few local players and although I mostly saw them as competition info was shared. I didn't really work out anything in this period, although long standing games like extremes and reds meant it was easy to continue doing well with little contact to other players. However for some reason I still felt as if I was somehow owed the latest trick, and often got angry and aggressive if I felt like I was missing out. I was still in "the chain" and I think this attitude is shared by many players.
In the last few years since £70 jackpots my attitude has changed again. I'm in a settled relationship now and I've grown out of the party lifestyle and lavish spending habits I had when I was younger and focused mostly on saving and securing my financial future. I now have very little contact with the playing scene and a lot of the best money I've made has been down to things I worked out myself, although this also means I'm very late to hear things that go nationwide which can be costly and sometimes I completely miss out on standard things. I prefer being this way though, I don't need other players help to succeed and I feel a lot more independent than I did in my early playing years. The reasons I've worked stuff out over the last few years aren't because I'm out 24/7 and addicted again, although I did feel a slight enthusiasm return in early £70 and I learnt to slightly enjoy playing things again which I think is vital if you want to work anything out. It's also because small non chain pubs are near enough extinct round here now meaning that I haven't had the option of reverting to old hits in fire pubs because they simply don't exist. Being forced to play new machines in chain pubs seemed to become an advantage over the last few years as many simple tricks have come out along with many obvious continuations.
The point if all my waffle is I don't feel like I'm in any "chain" anymore. I don't care what other players think of me because its rare anyone ever tells me anything useful, I don't care too much what others are doing and I focus on what works best for me. I seem to have done better like this. Bottom line is this tyrannical hierarchical system of hypocritical fruit machine playing elites spoon feeding the masses doesn't have to control your knowledge, income or future in the fruit machine playing world like they'd have you believe. Most players are simply living in a matrix of false beliefs and need to change their attitude to how the fruit machine world works.
All the best Lee in whatever you do in the future anyway.
I mentioned before my dislike for the "we're all somewhere in a chain" attitude. I think a lot of players like Lee discredit their own intelligence by thinking that everything has to be told to them. A lot of intelligent players live in this "chain" system due to nothing other than their own attitude. I know this because my own attitude to machines at different times in my playing career has affected whether I've worked things out or not.
In my early playing days (2001-2004) I was a rubbish player looking back but I still managed to work a few things out here and there, although they were always squandered and never maximised. The only reason I was able to work things out was because I was highly addicted to playing machines, I'd stay out from when I woke up around midday until the pubs closed 6 days a week. I couldn't stick to playing things I'd been shown which usually lead to losses but very occasionally meant I stumbled on things, however due having always been treated as the new player/cluey in my group at the time I sought validification by telling my creator straight away and asking for help to perfect methods. This means I didn't really feel like I'd worked things out because I never did that well off anything i had, as soon as I shared with the group my information would be slung into "the chain" and the credit usually taken by someone else who used it as leverage to get information returned. This seems harsh but I guess it was fair enough, the things I did best off were usually things I was spoon fed and I was too dumb to realise the potential of the snippets I gave away.
In my second period (2005-208) my lifestyle changed dramatically and along with it my attitude to machines. I was single so this meant socialising and going to the gym took place of importance over machines which became nothing more than a means to an end. I had no urge to play anything I didn't know the full script for, I hated playing machines and working stuff out seemed like a costly waste of time. My focus changed to bettering my play, keeping accounts, being up at 9 and treating it very much like a job. I stopped speaking to my original group but I still spoke to a few local players and although I mostly saw them as competition info was shared. I didn't really work out anything in this period, although long standing games like extremes and reds meant it was easy to continue doing well with little contact to other players. However for some reason I still felt as if I was somehow owed the latest trick, and often got angry and aggressive if I felt like I was missing out. I was still in "the chain" and I think this attitude is shared by many players.
In the last few years since £70 jackpots my attitude has changed again. I'm in a settled relationship now and I've grown out of the party lifestyle and lavish spending habits I had when I was younger and focused mostly on saving and securing my financial future. I now have very little contact with the playing scene and a lot of the best money I've made has been down to things I worked out myself, although this also means I'm very late to hear things that go nationwide which can be costly and sometimes I completely miss out on standard things. I prefer being this way though, I don't need other players help to succeed and I feel a lot more independent than I did in my early playing years. The reasons I've worked stuff out over the last few years aren't because I'm out 24/7 and addicted again, although I did feel a slight enthusiasm return in early £70 and I learnt to slightly enjoy playing things again which I think is vital if you want to work anything out. It's also because small non chain pubs are near enough extinct round here now meaning that I haven't had the option of reverting to old hits in fire pubs because they simply don't exist. Being forced to play new machines in chain pubs seemed to become an advantage over the last few years as many simple tricks have come out along with many obvious continuations.
The point if all my waffle is I don't feel like I'm in any "chain" anymore. I don't care what other players think of me because its rare anyone ever tells me anything useful, I don't care too much what others are doing and I focus on what works best for me. I seem to have done better like this. Bottom line is this tyrannical hierarchical system of hypocritical fruit machine playing elites spoon feeding the masses doesn't have to control your knowledge, income or future in the fruit machine playing world like they'd have you believe. Most players are simply living in a matrix of false beliefs and need to change their attitude to how the fruit machine world works.
All the best Lee in whatever you do in the future anyway.
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Been-Grant-Mitchell'd!
- Senior Member
- Posts: 957
- Joined: Sat Mar 22, 2008 12:03 am
- Location: West Sussex
I have to agree with Noel & Horsey's last posts.
Plus, I don't know who Redlinesman drives for, but I can't help thinking that's what he does as, like Ob says, he never actually answers any questions people ask him.
He'd make a brilliant politician!
Tricks/methods/emptiers come from many situations and not just "from the top".
ps. For instance, how many players have actually claimed to be the original person to work out Pie Factory?
Plus, I don't know who Redlinesman drives for, but I can't help thinking that's what he does as, like Ob says, he never actually answers any questions people ask him.
He'd make a brilliant politician!
Tricks/methods/emptiers come from many situations and not just "from the top".
ps. For instance, how many players have actually claimed to be the original person to work out Pie Factory?
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Noels Beard
I feel the points made are justified no matter what my position.ob wrote:I think your missing the point, yes the trick has originated somewhere and been known by a select few etc who have carefully guarded it, thats common sense that any intelligent person would do, of course there are a lot of rats in this game who live day by day have no savings and will have no semblance of long run thoughts hence just blurt things out.
What I'm saying is will/linesman etc like to come across like they are thus top end lot and work things out blah de blah, but anyone can say that on a message board and as such there is little reason for anyone that doesn't know them to believe them.
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The Dark Horse
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- Joined: Fri May 20, 2011 6:01 am
- Location: London
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Ruler of The World
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Dark Horse, I regard you as a sort of friend I never really had. I was glad when, towards the end of your post, you at least saw that you were waffling and I think that's why JG loves your post so much - mine was long but to the point, yours was more like his usual drivel (sorry JG, but its true)!
How did we get to illuminati from this? Do you even understand what you're on about? I'm really not trying to have a go and maybe my own understanding is wrong - aren't they the so-called devil worshipers who control things like the pop stars and all that? You know, Eminem's lyrics? Rain Man, sold my soul to the devil and all that? That's my understanding of some type of group who 'run' things? I don't think anyone was saying they 'ran' this game? I don't think anyone said they were being controlled by or trying to escape from a group of fruit machine method teaching devil worshipers?
I do not claim to have worked out Pie Factory, Jordan!
I think almost everyone is missing the point here and it speaks volumes about the level of understanding amongst fruit chatters. I am not calling anyone thick here or having a go, perhaps it is down to writing rather than speaking.
As far as I am concerned, I worked a lot out on my own, that's how I got into the 'professional' world. No one had taught me a thing when I was spotted and taken on due to the fact that I was a dangerous rival to the local pro - he wisely decided to join forces with me. Beyond that, I gave him back more than he gave me in terms of knowledge and he won't even argue that point even if he's pissed out of his head. I was never a sponger of information, I always contributed and worked with this guy, we shared all info and were a pretty decent team until he got a real job.
Not blowing my own trumpet, I have failed miserably since those days (especially last couple of years) and that doesn't even make me half the player he was. I can honestly say, I might be good on the machines, might understand them better than most but this guy knew incredible amounts of locations and how to put a route together like no one else - at least no one I have seen go about their route with my own eyes anyway...
How did we get to illuminati from this? Do you even understand what you're on about? I'm really not trying to have a go and maybe my own understanding is wrong - aren't they the so-called devil worshipers who control things like the pop stars and all that? You know, Eminem's lyrics? Rain Man, sold my soul to the devil and all that? That's my understanding of some type of group who 'run' things? I don't think anyone was saying they 'ran' this game? I don't think anyone said they were being controlled by or trying to escape from a group of fruit machine method teaching devil worshipers?
I do not claim to have worked out Pie Factory, Jordan!
I think almost everyone is missing the point here and it speaks volumes about the level of understanding amongst fruit chatters. I am not calling anyone thick here or having a go, perhaps it is down to writing rather than speaking.
As far as I am concerned, I worked a lot out on my own, that's how I got into the 'professional' world. No one had taught me a thing when I was spotted and taken on due to the fact that I was a dangerous rival to the local pro - he wisely decided to join forces with me. Beyond that, I gave him back more than he gave me in terms of knowledge and he won't even argue that point even if he's pissed out of his head. I was never a sponger of information, I always contributed and worked with this guy, we shared all info and were a pretty decent team until he got a real job.
Not blowing my own trumpet, I have failed miserably since those days (especially last couple of years) and that doesn't even make me half the player he was. I can honestly say, I might be good on the machines, might understand them better than most but this guy knew incredible amounts of locations and how to put a route together like no one else - at least no one I have seen go about their route with my own eyes anyway...