A system for roulette machines that DOES work

[jimbo111]

Jimbo, I understand fully, you've hooked into the fact these aren't entirely fair. One point I have to pull you up on though. You say 'How can a random game pay to a percentage?', we've had this debate a few times before on the forums. .[/quote]

The reason i mention this is because they have 12 inch high letters on top of the machine in corals saying if you play slots you will recieve this as a avergae payout...Then you go play and it says >>.THIS MACHINE IS RANDOM thats why i mentioned it....

[JG]

If indeed these slots are random, they will still pay to an average payout. The thing is, this average payout could be over an almost infinite amount of spins. If they've weighted it nicely though, it should be an average over around £10,000 cycled.

They can indeed be random AND pay to an average % payout.

They're probably rigged though


I lost £1 in a Wall Street. Definitely rigged.

[jimbo111]

[quote="Streakypoos"]If indeed these slots are random, they will still pay to an average payout. The thing is, this average payout could be over an almost infinite amount of spins. If they've weighted it nicely though, it should be an average over around £10,000 cycled.

They can indeed be random AND pay to an average % payout.

They're probably rigged though ]
smartass maybe they do then pay to a % so if your saying that there roulette pays to 92.6% which the machines claim then you must surely see that they ARE rigged..ROULEETE GIVES A HOUSE EDGE OF ONLY 2.7% but theyre tleling you there % is 7.4%???? do the maths nutter...

[pat624]

Sorry Jimbo but your figures are somewhat warped, the cost of a license for a catagory B2 FOBT is £1800 a year, in addition there is vat of 17 1/2% of gross profits payable.

The figure you quote is wrong , it is an annual figure not a weekly one, in addition of course the shop must rent the machine , at a cost of around £200 per month.

So the machine needs to turnover around £15,000 per month running at 3% profit to break even.

Most shops FOBTS will turnover at least £3k a day, in many cases much more, so its easy to see where the bookies profits come from.

SOURCE

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/budget2006/bn62.htm

Pat

[jimbo111]

Sorry Jimbo but your figures are somewhat warped, the cost of a license for a catagory B2 FOBT is £1800 a year, in addition there is vat of 17 1/2% of gross profits payable.

The figure you quote is wrong , it is an annual figure not a weekly one, in addition of course the shop must rent the machine , at a cost of around £200 per month.

So the machine needs to turnover around £15,000 per month running at 3% profit to break even.

Most shops FOBTS will turnover at least £3k a day, in many cases much more, so its easy to see where the bookies profits come from.

SOURCE

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/budget2006/bn62.htm

Pat

Pat i was talking about 4800 a month for a shop with 3 machones how they got to the figure 4800 i didnt know but that equated to £15k a month....so i was actually right....

[ob]

The bottom line is.....
"IF you know these games are rigged so that you cannot prove a long term win or think they are rigged so you cannot prove a long term win and you carry on playing them - YOU ARE A MUG."

It's not the fact they are rigged that you will not have a long term win - ITS THE FACT they are 97% payout NOT 100% - that means overall you lose!!!! Saying machines are rigged when you lose is supposedly some sort of irrational justification for playing them in the first place, trying to propose that it wasn't to do with luck merely the fact the machine is rigged that you have lost..... ITS A GAMBLE YOU GOT UNLUCKY - LIVE WITH IT, ITS YOUR STUPID FAULT FOR PLAYING A HOUSE GAME IN THE FIRST PLACE.

[harry 3]

This will shock some on here. Last week Ladbrokes were running a slots competition where you started with £100 of "play money" and had five minutes playing the slots to get the highest winnings, with small prizes for the highest in the shop and regional and national prizes adding up to £60,000. As an aside I was talking to the shops manager, whom I have known for over twenty years, who had a visit from their area manager. Appaprently their shop is"A PRIME CANDIDATE TO HAVE EIGHT MACHINES" and I thought they had agreed to a code of practice ( like BACTA have, ha,ha) to only site four.

[jimbo111]

This will shock some on here. Last week Ladbrokes were running a slots competition where you started with £100 of "play money" and had five minutes playing the slots to get the highest winnings, with small prizes for the highest in the shop and regional and national prizes adding up to £60,000. As an aside I was talking to the shops manager, whom I have known for over twenty years, who had a visit from their area manager. Appaprently their shop is"A PRIME CANDIDATE TO HAVE EIGHT MACHINES" and I thought they had agreed to a code of practice ( like BACTA have, ha,ha) to only site four.

Does not surprise me in the least...horse racing will decline on the high street more than it already has done..the future generations will have no interest whatsoever in racing or greyhounds..THESE machines will take over and all laddies etc will become are high street casinos....

[ob]

no, I have seen 12 in one, they just have to have sections, this is the same as arcades.

[flashback]

I thought it wasn't so much a code of practice but law that they could only have four machines. Guess not, Christmas comes early this year for the bookies!! *


























* Christmas cancelled for the people who play them

[JG]

[/quote]
smartass maybe they do then pay to a % so if your saying that there roulette pays to 92.6% which the machines claim then you must surely see that they ARE rigged..ROULEETE GIVES A HOUSE EDGE OF ONLY 2.7% but theyre tleling you there % is 7.4%???? do the maths nutter...[/quote]



Alright, alright, alright, alright I'm on your side here. I believe these machines are rigged and unbalanced. The graphics can represent a natural house edge and some software versions of roulette can apparently be set to target a lower percentage. I agreed with you all the way on the riggedness of these terrible machines. The only thing I felt I had to point out was how a game CAN be random and CAN pay to a target percentage over time. Claiming to pay to a percentage representitive of the fixed odds displayed doesn't indicate foul play, however these games ARE rigged (by and large) and definitely don't play ball.

[geoff365]

With regards to poker here is one from the Wizard of Odds site. How to fix a poker game from the inside.

http://wizardofodds.com/software/absolutepoker.html

The odds on roulette at every land based casino average in the uk.....the rake is 2.7%. However the hold at a roulette table is about 15% (On the total amount of bets placed).

Any different online/in a bookies tells the obvious. Casinos have been going many years. The maths is based on the past profits.

Cheers Geoff.

[jimbo111]

With regards to poker here is one from the Wizard of Odds site. How to fix a poker game from the inside.

http://wizardofodds.com/software/absolutepoker.html

The odds on roulette at every land based casino average in the uk.....the rake is 2.7%. However the hold at a roulette table is about 15% (On the total amount of bets placed).

Any different online/in a bookies tells the obvious. Casinos have been going many years. The maths is based on the past profits.

Cheers Geoff.

For that interesting post and im glad you pointed me towards the "wizard of odds" site heres a few links if you have time you can digest....

http://wizardofodds.com/roulette/10000s ... ezero.html

http://wizardofodds.com/roulette/10000s ... zero2.html

http://wizardofodds.com/roulette/10000s ... zero3.html

Ive jus spent the past bit checking out these links which carries 30,000 sim. roulette spins...the facts do nothing but prove FOBT are a completely different game from real roulette...now i think 30000 is more than enough to base facts on...

1>>u never get the same nuber 5-6x in 10 spins as happens continously on FOBT..

2 you never get 15-20 reds/blacks in a row as u do continouously on FOBTs.

3u never get spells where numbers all high r all low as you do continuously on FOBTs..

Think that just about wraps up the case for the "rigged" case and unless anyone can say 30000 spins isnt enough to justify these claims then u maybe need to takeover as the wizard of odds.....

[bigv038]

1>>u never get the same nuber 5-6x in 10 spins as happens continously on FOBT..

2 you never get 15-20 reds/blacks in a row as u do continouously on FOBTs.

3u never get spells where numbers all high r all low as you do continuously on FOBTs..

what casinos do you go to then?

[stuart4010]

1>>u never get the same nuber 5-6x in 10 spins as happens continously on FOBT..

2 you never get 15-20 reds/blacks in a row as u do continouously on FOBTs.

3u never get spells where numbers all high r all low as you do continuously on FOBTs..

Think that just about wraps up the case for the "rigged" case and unless anyone can say 30000 spins isnt enough to justify these claims then u maybe need to takeover as the wizard of odds.....

http://www.fruitchat.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=7109

On the basis of the first post in the above link, I strongly disagree with your above comments.