pros v semi pros v fun players

[cool]

it would be interesting how many professional quiz machine players in the nation there are , as I believe that the vast majority of the people who contribute to the quiz machine section are not pros. This isnt to say that the contribution of non pro players isnt any less valuable! By professional I mean sole source of income from quiz machines.no grey economy or claiming benefit.Its time for the pseudonyms to declare their status pro or non pro.

[Fader]

How could you possibly make a living from Quiz machines

[BigEd]

I believe that the vast majority of the people who contribute to the quiz machine section are not pros. This isnt to say that the contribution of non pro players isnt any less valuable!

I would suggest that it is the non pros who make a far more valuable contribution to this board than pros. Infact true pros, as described by cool, could be viewed as parasites. The reasons being:

a) A pro is only interested in making money from machines, thus the best games in their opinion are those that can be beat, not actually the best games to play by the "fun players"
b) pros take all the money available, relying on mug punters filling the machines for them. This makes the games worst to play for the rest of you(I don't play machines as I am sadly not old enough), as they are always trying to claw back the money paid out.
c) A pro keeps quiet, gaining info, but never helping out, as this would give the fun players more of a chance, and negatively impact on their earnings
d) A pro bitches and whinges about being told not to play a machine, because it is their right, and they are doing nothing wrong. Much the same way as a taxi driver has the right to cut you up in your car as "he uses the road for his living"
e) Games are almost impossible to win on nowadays. This is because they are being written so that they can't be beat by the pros. This makes the games impossible for fun players to win on, and has made the games far less enjoyable for fun players.


Above are just my thoughts, and are in no way meant to mean I know what I am talking about, as I obvously don't, and I probably made it all up.
There I said it, before you lot...

Now how about a noose as a suggestion for the WU trophy? Winner gets to wear it... Now that does seem a good idea

[cool]

for somebody who is not old enough to play machines you have a lot of opinions. God knows what you will be like when you are a grown up. Pro machine players are not parasites they are just more intelligent and more dedicated than the bulk of the quiz machine playing population (ability to play machines are obviously not the sole indicator of intelligence).I have been accused of being a parasite before.If the PERSON levelling that accusation got off their fat arse and engaged brain perhaps they would be able to win something.Similarly companies can be accused of being parasites as they get 50% of the income of swp's for doing SFA.

[QuizMaster]

Have to say I am of the view that pros are not parasites, and do contribute to the forum now and again. I have certainly weighed in with my fair share of comment, rather than just 'lurking' for information.

Proper professional players tend to view this forum as a bit of fun - the 'real' information gets discussed in much less a public forum between top level players.

And it's childlish to say that games are now designed to be too hard to win on because of professional players. . I seem to recall that when Word Up, Silver Falls et al came out originally, they could be manipulated, and all those 'non-professional' players suddenly started running around winning money as fast as they could, without sparing a thought for the regular punters

It also didn't appear to bother you that as soon as there was a fault on DOND, you spanked the machines for as much as you could. If you could do it legitimately (i.e by actually being able to answer the questions instead of frigging the game), you would Big Ed.

Just because you're not good enough to play properly, don't blame those of us that are.

[Barry Trotter]

Its more like 70%, buit i agree with BigEd whole-heartedly. I think we can tahe him/her not being old enough with a pinch of salt, don't you...

He's right though - the only games people tend to like on here are those they can beat. Whilst i understand this philosophy, its not what any listening manufacturers would want to pay any attention to. All that they'll do is run off and make the gmes that CAN be beaten, unbeatable - look what happened to WU... grid clearances used to be easy. Now its a virtual impossibility. Luckily, the game is good enough to keep us going back without us needing to win shed loads of cash. WU is a rarity though.

Fruit Frenzy (new on Gamesnet and Paragon, i think) is another such game. I've ploughed loads into this whilst supping on a pint of strongbow. I didn't like it at first, cos it seemed really really hard - and the first level is, for some reason.

Pro's, as you call them, do nothing for the games other than ruin them for others. Hence, games have become more convoluted and generally, shit. The regular, or fun players, contribute more useful information than any other player base.

Fact.

[Guest]

i'm not a pro. you can't make enough money to live off from the modern machines.

having said that, I do enjoy playing them and I do my best not to lose.

[quizard]

By professional I mean sole source of income from quiz machines.no grey economy or claiming benefit.Its time for the pseudonyms to declare their status pro or non pro.

I doubt if there are many players now who do it full-time without any government subsidy at all.

The status of full-time pro quiz machine players should really be the same as that of the pro gambler/poker players etc. The unofficial attitude of government agencies like the Inland Revenue/DWP towards these type of people is to regard them as "retired" being of independant means. They should not be entitled to any means tested state benefits and should pay their own voluntary NI contribution if they wish.

[BigEd]

Pro machine players are not parasites they are just more intelligent and more dedicated than the bulk of the quiz machine playing population

So, remove all the fun and semi pros off machines so that they are only played by Pros, and you reckon that you would still make a living? Our survey says... ehhhh oooooohhhh.

I don't have an issue with pro players at all. They/you are a fact of life, and will always be, but don't expect the non pros to be happy about the way they have to pay their "pro player" tax, in the same way as people object to paying taxes to keep the likes of... (insert personal hate here, chavs, asylum seakers, 14 year single mothers, dole scroungers, etc).
Also what I pointed out was that "fun" players make a far more valuable contribution to this board than "pro" players.

There I've said it again.

[cool]

Mr Quizard is correct I pay voluntary NI , have the blessing of the local tax office and never claimed any benefit . Even before I turned pro I got hassle. Its the British disease- jealousy of somebody's elses success . If it was them then its ok.

[Barry Trotter]

If it was them then its ok.

Not at all!! If you choose to make a living my a purely legitimate means, then its your choice and i would wish you all the best in your chosen career. However, people like yourself ruin games for the average player. The games then play terribly, because they are always on there knees, average joe punters stop playing them because they don't get any value for money. The takings of the machines fall as a whole, the operators realise that having the box on site is not worth it, and the industry ends up in the same hole that AWP's got into... No-one plays them any more because generally they are shit, and a core select few people still shovel money into certain games, because these people are addicts, or the game happens to be one of the few that is enjoyable REGARDLESS of the money that can/cant be won (i hate to say it, but WU is a good example).

The AWP industry has already gone that way. The SWP makers are already having to design games that, lets face it, are nothing to do with skill. You'll "skillfully" win some money, if it wants you to. Erm... Yeah, right.

Its a slippery slope - lets hope its not to steep already that we can't climb back up to from whence it came.

[foxy]

Well reasoned argument Mr.Trotter.
I share your concerns though possibly from a slightly different angle
If cool can still play pro then fair play to him.I can't imagine how it could be done these days.I used to know about 10 folk that either were or easily could have been pro but that total is now zero, myself included.I made enough money out of foxy but didn't quit my job which seems like quite a wise decision now.
A last thought on pros ruining the experience for others.Apart from seeming to gloss over the SKILL with prizes bit the fact is the average punter is never going to win even a fiver from any machine these days.However imagine creating a game where once you'd negotiated the skill bit your chances of winning a decent prize were exactly the same as any pro.Quite a novelty and the opportunity to entice a lot of new players I would have thought.See my rants about DOND for further explanation.

[cool]

If Mr Trotters observations were true there would not be more quiz machines than ever . I understand how a game is ruined for a while when a pro wins the jackpot , but that goes for anybody winning the jackpot . Thats why I operate on a 3 month cycle visiting a site 4 times a year . Hardly excessive. The perception is that you go into a pub and through your amazing photographic memory proceed to empty the machine.That is far from the truthe. The fact is that most people have got better things to do than to learn facts! The reason that there are a few people like myself left whilst others have given up is less about the difficulty of the machines than the fact that most people Ive talked to are solely interested in the money.To me its a vocation, a way of life, an extension of my university education. There are no new pros as far as I know as its far harder to get started due to the difficulty of the machines and also due to the fact that people in my experience are generally lazier than 20 years ago.

[fotherz]

I'm with BigEd all the way.

The argument of "you're only saying that because you can't do it" is a childish defence.


The truth is, most of us can make more money by having a "proper job" than by squabbling with bartenders over pound coins. How much could a pro really earn? Enough to offset a lonely activity that one wouldn't accept as a day job? Maybe it feels better to "win" something than "earn" it.

[Istenem]

interesting thread. there was a time when i played semi pro and i know the impeti for doing so: self-satisfaction of beating the system, ego trip of being more intelligent than the average pubgoer, being your own boss and deciding when and where to work, sticking two fingers up at the rigged gambling industry and the allure of knowing you can get some money for nothing.

these days i still play and still make beer money and i honestly think that the last point above is the reason why.
WU is never going to pay my mortgage but after grafting 9-5 (okay trawling fruitchat and delegating shitty jobs) a pint and a few games on SWP is relaxing. i think this is the view of 95% of SWP players. it is like being paid 50p for finishing your crossword. small fry but satisfying.

when i did it seriously there were some profitable word games which would give me £200 a day, if i'm honest, were these games still around i would be probably be playing them now instead of sitting at a desk.