Newbie looking for advice

mendez · Post by **mendez** » Sun Apr 26, 2015 12:03 pm

I wonder if the increase in the price of drinks has been a factor, in that the closer a drink is to a fiver the less change someone has to put in a machine. Perhaps there'll be a renaissance when it edges over that and every pint comes with a handful of coins. Or use of contactless payment will increase and no-one will have any coins.

JG · Post by JG » Sun Apr 26, 2015 12:25 pm

Contactless quiz machines. There's an idea.

Ok consumer trends, decline in pub trade, poor game design and pro players, probably in that order of most influential to least are the reasons there is less turnover on pub AWPs.

paragoon · Post by **paragoon** » Mon Apr 27, 2015 7:48 pm

mendez wrote:I wonder if the increase in the price of drinks has been a factor, in that the closer a drink is to a fiver the less change someone has to put in a machine. Perhaps there'll be a renaissance when it edges over that and every pint comes with a handful of coins. Or use of contactless payment will increase and no-one will have any coins.

I'd agree but seeing as they don't accept new 5 or 10ps they're onto a loser. Amazing they never bothered to fix this fault. Add in 1 and 2ps basically you're in a situation where machines only take four out of seven coins.

Nil Satis · Post by **Nil Satis** » Mon Apr 27, 2015 9:00 pm

This is a relatively minor issue, but it is certainly part of the wider picture. The general failure rate of Paragons, which have basically been the market leaders for serious players for several years now, is just ridiculous. Whether it's a failure to pay out, a failure to accept some or all coins and/or notes, screen issues or problems with individual games, I encounter a problem with at least 50% of the cabinets I play. There isn't any other comparable technology that is remotely as unreliable - imagine if vending machines, automated ticket machines, ATMs and so on had anything like the same issues - consumers would have given up on them long ago.

It is this, plus the poor quality of so many of the games, that is/was fully within the remit of the game and machine companies to manage and improve. I think we would all agree that changes in consumer trends, particularly in terms of pubs and the popularity of newer forms of gaming and gambling, have been major factors that are almost completely outside the companies' control but the more sensible posters on here have been reporting these other issues for years. They could and should have taken more notice but now I fear it is too late.

SoccerHQ · Post by **SoccerHQ** » Mon Apr 27, 2015 10:30 pm

Completely agree Nil (good result yesterday chap!), was playing a Paragon today, won 7 quid on Pints so went to collect. After a couple of go's attempting to press the collect button and nothing happened, eventually the fault screen and S.O.S for engineer message came up so left it at that.

Another time at a completely different venue, I won the jackpot on Pints, went to innocently collect the jackpot and the screen just completely froze so all I could do after frantically tapping the machine for 20 seconds was watch the time trickle down and game over come up!

I agree they are far more unreliable than the Gamesnet/tec machines in terms of pay outs even if the screens and gameplay is usually much more smooth.

On another note when I started playing 2-3 years ago most about 80-90% of wetherspoons/pub chains had Paragons. I might be because of the one particular game I played but it seems to me now in Wetherspoons and other venues, the gamestec and I Quest machines have taken over in the majority. There are certainly far more of them floating around now then even a year ago I'd say compared to Paragons.

grecian · Post by **grecian** » Tue Apr 28, 2015 3:38 pm

JG wrote: A) Smartphones
B) Consumer trends
C) Poor game design
D) The decline in the pub trade
E) Poor machine maintenance
F) Pro Players
G) The 2010 SWP regulations

Mainly (G), I think. For me it was the substantial toughening of SWPs in response that led to SWPs becoming unenjoyable for all but the most elite full-time players. I went from playing a lot and winning a fair bit to struggling turn a profit pretty rapidly, so I stopped playing.

(D) and (B) are part of the picture, but it's worth noting that pubs were closing a lot from the middle of the last decade, and SWPs remained popular and enjoyable for a long while after that. (B) is relevant insofar as so many pubs have converted into smarter gastropubs or craft ale bars, and machines of any kind don't gel well with that - this is a particular issue in London.

I think (C) and (E) are consequences rather than causes - both reflect a fundamental lack of investment or care by the industry in its product, as it knows the end is approaching.

Don't think (A) and (F) have much of a role to be honest - too few pros to have much of an effect, and most travel widely, and only a few games have been vulnerable to the smartphone (although modern apps like QuizUp do make SWP programs look uncomfortably outdated and shit, imo).

mendez · Post by **mendez** » Wed Apr 29, 2015 9:45 pm

I can understand the lack of investment in maintenance (and probably the inability to maintain given the age of the units and lack of parts) but I can't understand why neither the machine operators nor the host pubs seem to be checking the machine is even working. The worst one I've seen recently was a Wetherspoons machine that was unable to accept coins or notes for 4 months but yet was turned on all that time. It boggles the mind that either no-one has visited it in that time or they have but didn't question the lack of coins - or that the pub didn't wonder why it was paying electricity for no profit.

SoccerHQ · Post by **SoccerHQ** » Wed Apr 29, 2015 9:53 pm

Anyone been to Crewe station. I pass through it from time to time from my once a month visits to the North west and change trains there. The cafe/waiting room on one of the platforms has a machine that is on and has game selections but has had the card can't detect reader message on for what must've been well over six months now.

Again either they don't care, no one attempts to play it (which given the passing numbers I refuse to believe) or because it's on train station property getting maintenance is more difficult for some reason. After all it does get switched on and off every day seemingly.

Northern Monkey · Post by **Northern Monkey** » Thu Apr 30, 2015 10:51 am

JG wrote:Which of these killed the quiz machine?

A) Smartphones
B) Consumer trends
C) Poor game design
D) The decline in the pub trade
E) Poor machine maintenance
F) Pro Players
G) The 2010 SWP regulations

G is a major factor IMO. This surely was the catalyst for the beginning of the end. I stumbled across a (I think) Mk 1 paragon yesterday with the line up that included Bully Star Prize, DOND, Triple towers etc and it was striking how much more enjoyable the games and the questions were back then ie pre 2010. Even the spoilers were of a different ilk. May have to nip back at lunchtime - the Triple Towers pot was at £25 and I used to have a knack for getting those out.

Also agree with Grecian that gentrification of pubs has been a huge factor as well. I have lost three sites near work within a couple of minutes walk of each other to gastropubs this year alone. Not to mention the countless others that shut for a lick of a paint and then never replace the machine.

Topical2009 · Post by **Topical2009** » Thu Apr 30, 2015 11:10 am

This is where you really notice that certain pub groups have clearly made a corporate decision to bin quiz machines. Once upon a time, any given pub closing, with the loss of one cabinet, might easily be outweighed by the opening of a new Wetherspoons down the road, with at least one, and often two or three, machines. Very rare now to find a new pub which thinks it should have one in my experience.

paragoon · Post by **paragoon** » Thu Apr 30, 2015 7:53 pm

http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/sky ... 0625082633

muddle · Post by **muddle** » Mon May 04, 2015 9:54 am

I know not everybody on here thinks this is of major significance,but I played one of those IQuests that have been converted to Issue 33 Gamesnets and the machine accepted new 5p pieces.I have found it baffling that a coin-operated industry has coin mechanisms that don't accept all major coins.That's going to cost money visibly as punters can't get the money in,and invisibly as they get irritated and less likely to bother to try to put money in.I could understand it if the attitude was 'spend no more money on these,just see what we can get before the end',but that doesn't seem to square with new games still being developed,and a new idea in Pub Connect.I might be the last of the born optimists here,but despite all the factors listed above in this thread,I think there could still be a viable industry there.Like others,I think the 2010 SWP regulations have been significant,but having read them again,I think the industry has over-reacted to them.It's just got to be a game of skill basically - just make it really hard (or time-consuming) to win if someone's just won recently.In essence,stop farting around with 'jackpots' that are fractionally more than it costs to play.

mendez · Post by **mendez** » Mon May 04, 2015 7:51 pm

I'm also surprised that machines can't payout in coins other than pounds if a supermarket self-service till is capable. There's perhaps a little method in the madness of not updating the coin mechs as if the player is mostly restricted to putting quids in then the machine should self-replenish payouts and require less floating.

quizard · Post by **quizard** » Mon May 04, 2015 9:39 pm

They did in the early days of quiz machines. Rather bizarrely early Coinmaster units would drop a £10 jackpot in a combination of 8 x pound coins 2x£50p and 10x 10p. And these were old the type chunky 50p and 10p to boot. In those days the machine had a separate tube for each denomination rather than the hoppers of today.

muddle · Post by **muddle** » Tue May 05, 2015 12:03 am

JG wrote:Which of these killed the quiz machine?

A) Smartphones
B) Consumer trends
C) Poor game design
D) The decline in the pub trade
E) Poor machine maintenance
F) Pro Players
G) The 2010 SWP regulations

Ok,here's my considered take on this.By 'considered' I probably mean overly influenced by having had quite a bad day with machines either being off,not accepting coins,or the screen not working properly,but here goes: In 2010,I was doing fine and from what I could tell,despite there being a dodgy economic picture overall,a reasonable amount of money was being put in the machines by Joe Public.The effects of A,B and D were probably growing ever more significant but as yet unnoticed by me.Then G happened,and the industry didn't react very well to this,became too worried about F and made some bad decisions which has certainly made C more significant and probably E as well.
The one little ray of hope I have is,that considering how likely Joe Public is to have a bad experience when playing a machine (or attempting to),due to the factors above,it's quite surprising that anyone is still playing them.Maybe there's a bit of affection for the old quiz machine from the British public,and perhaps with some sensible decisions from the industry,the current trend could be reversible.Well,I'd like to think so anyway.