Quiz machine percentages - and eggheads in particular.

mouse75 · Post by **mouse75** » Sun Jan 15, 2012 4:27 pm

Those of you who have played eggheads - will have noted that prize goes up by ten pence per game after starting at 50 pence. So in effect a 20% payout.

Now your'e thinking thats wrong - because the game offers spot prizes along the way...... but if you win a spot prize - the value is deducted from the main cashpot.

Result - in the long run this game pays out 20%. No if's, no but's game is capped at a miserly 20% payout.

By comparison

National Lottery - 70%
National Lottery scratchards - between 55% and 65%
Bingo halls - 50% (Which is a disgrace on their "instant" type games)
Casino games (played to equal stakes) - Roulette 97%, Blackjack 99%, baccarat, stud poker, 3 card poker - all over 90%
Fruit machines - legal minimum of 70%
horse racing / dog racing etc - I believe the bookies aim to make between 15%-20% - and the odds are strctured to help ensure this. So punter payout is 80%

Can someone - ideally someone reading this from the industry - please tell me why Joe Bloggs would ever put another penny in a quiz machine anywhere - as it is quite clearly one of the lowest gambling returns in the country.

See also my post on spot it - with it's outstanding payouts. Days of playing quiz machines are gone, and i don't think the very limited "entertainment" you get from most of these games in any way justifies the low payout.

quizard · Post by **quizard** » Sun Jan 15, 2012 4:40 pm

I think generally SWPs now payout about 25%. The thing you overlooked with Eggheads is that when get the JP it restarts at £3 not 0.

David Healy · Post by **David Healy** » Sun Jan 15, 2012 5:24 pm

1. The only time I played a game of Eggheads after winning the jackpot, I am fairly sure it went back to £4.

2. You are comparing several different forms of gambling with a form of entertainment that is not gambling - i.e. apples and oranges. I accept that the term "entertainment" may not be appropriate for a large proportion of the current output from the suppliers.

exactly · Post by **exactly** » Sun Jan 15, 2012 6:01 pm

The Paragon developers in particular have slowly but surely removed every game that could be considered "entertainment". Bully, Nuts, PMP, Road to Glory, Hexagrams and every card game have gone. Hex and Word Up are chipped and often unplayable. The operators will probably rake in some money in the short term but when players feel theyve been stung by the tedious trivia games and endless spoilers they won't be back, not for such a crappy payout.

mouse75 · Post by **mouse75** » Sun Jan 15, 2012 7:42 pm

David Healy wrote:1. The only time I played a game of Eggheads after winning the jackpot, I am fairly sure it went back to £4.

2. You are comparing several different forms of gambling with a form of entertainment that is not gambling - i.e. apples and oranges. I accept that the term "entertainment" may not be appropriate for a large proportion of the current output from the suppliers.

eggheads reset must be set by supplier - i have had it reset to £1.00.
So unless paying out every time - in the long run this makes the payout very close to 20%.

ob · Post by ob » Mon Jan 16, 2012 11:50 am

I wonder if quiz machines were set to a higher % payout then they might fare better. People could actually see them payout then and not just a quid.

Or would the pros just take all the value and leave them in the same crappy non payout state? Qho knows! Also another idea just go back to having 1 game but a popular one like wwtbam or something so that it gets alot of play and will br ready more often for anyone...

ob · Post by ob » Mon Jan 16, 2012 11:50 am

I wonder if quiz machines were set to a higher % payout then they might fare better. People could actually see them payout then and not just a quid.

Or would the pros just take all the value and leave them in the same crappy non payout state? Qho knows! Also another idea just go back to having 1 game but a popular one like wwtbam or something so that it gets alot of play and will br ready more often for anyone...

QuizMaster · Post by **QuizMaster** » Mon Jan 16, 2012 12:43 pm

ob wrote:I wonder if quiz machines were set to a higher % payout then they might fare better. People could actually see them payout then and not just a quid.

Or would the pros just take all the value and leave them in the same crappy non payout state? Qho knows! Also another idea just go back to having 1 game but a popular one like wwtbam or something so that it gets alot of play and will br ready more often for anyone...

Good idea. Why not start with Pub Quiz.

quizard · Post by **quizard** » Mon Jan 16, 2012 1:11 pm

I don't think any increase in the generousity of SWPs is likely in the near future. The threat of a tax on cash prize SWPs has not gone away. If that were to happen it could have very detrimental impact on SWP indeed.

grecian · Post by **grecian** » Mon Jan 16, 2012 2:57 pm

I wondered this about Eggheads too - I concluded that maybe the answer was it resetting to an amount upwards of £3 (I've never seen one below that, personally). However, given the difficulty of winning it I doubt that has a lot of impact.

What was the SWP payout rate historically? Had an idea it was much higher than it is now although I may be wrong. Just because AWPs are set at c. 70% doesn't mean that's appropriate for SWPs - as others have said, SWPs aren't gambling and shouldn't be treated as if they are - but 25% does seem low. Of course it's not just about a low overall payout, but about how the prize structure works - and with the current barrage of woeful <£5 JPs and <£1 prizes, players of all skill levels are noticing how shit the prizes are.

My bigger issue at the moment remains that unless you're truly a "top boy", you're going to be losing money on these things, or at best making a pittance. And after many years of being a skilled part-timer making a decent profit, I'm crying into my beer. On the plus side, it's freed up time to be spent more enjoyably, by reading and doing proper quizzes.

Nil Satis · Post by **Nil Satis** » Mon Jan 16, 2012 3:40 pm

Therein lies the key point - punters are being put off by the ludicrous difficulty levels and low prizes on offer, keen players even at your level are being discouraged for similar reasons (albeit that the difficulty issue is obviously at a considerably different threshold!), which only leaves ... a few "top boys" who will survive because they have to, unless they find something else to do with their time. This is a wonderful example of the Law of Unintended Consequences to set at the feet of the companies that makes the games and machines - the very people they are so scared of might well be the last people playing the things before the light is metaphorically switched off.

As for Eggheads, I think £3 seems to be the standard reset point. This means that if a JP of £5 is won, the game has taken £10 (20 x 50p goes to raise the JP from £3 to £5) to pay out £5, giving a basic payout of 50%; if however the JP rises to £10 before being won, I make that about 29% payout (£35 in, £10 out), which seems to be about right historically - I've always had 30% in the back of my mind as the standard payout. These figures should be unaffected by the spot prizes as explained above.

At least this game offers a decent prize once in a while. I still have the occasional look at Premier League Darts and am still stunned by how poor that is - 60p seems to be the standard top prize, with 10p if you bust after the standard four offers, or 20p if you are lucky. This one really must be the worst 'big name' game (licensed, famous faces, commonly available) ever released, or can anyone suggest a worse one?!

maverick69 · Post by **maverick69** » Mon Jan 16, 2012 3:59 pm

How far is pub quiz potable to the extent u can get Jp every time. me, my dad and brother got 18 quid off this game on the roscoff ferry. was it luck doubt it, was it pumped by idiots probably. can to enlighten me quiz master.

QuizMaster · Post by **QuizMaster** » Mon Jan 16, 2012 5:45 pm

Varies between £20 and £10 if you're on top of the questions. More than £20 would require an inordinate amount of previous biffer play, since the £1 is easily accessible for even the most biffer type players once it's gagging. Because you are guaranteed the cash once you've reached a prize level, it is pretty flat. But that's also one of the reasons that the punters like it so much, I would expect.

exactly · Post by **exactly** » Mon Jan 16, 2012 9:43 pm

Spoilers usually kick in on the 3 quid round, often before then. If you can get past this for a the first tenner, then I don't see how it could stop you getting the second tenner or third or fourth...

QuizMaster · Post by **QuizMaster** » Mon Jan 16, 2012 10:25 pm

Get past the second tenner and you'll find out why.............