500jps observation
THANK F*CK FOR THAT POST PMK!!PMK wrote:Its PMK my friend!!
PGS's ALWAYS reset to the same starting %age(If you have the 'proper' astra manual like we did it even states this) Once you go £50 - £150 in, watch them try and catch up.
If a big win comes in, plug it before it banks, another big win is there almost immediately, repeat, the same win or indeed a bigger one returns within a few spins again and again until you allow win to be banked. Now that is NOT random its a machine trying to level out repeatedly from the same reset position.
This happened continuously every time we did it(about 50), usually spinning in uncharacteristic wins between £200- £400 which as people know are VERY unusual for this machine.
Kai is a 'black-and-white' theorist; he sees no grey.
No voice speaks louder than the voice of experience. I have hours of experience on these, observing and playing.
The old Rain Riches paying gold pot 1/3 of time at about 411 pounds, and if doing so ALWAYS dropping 400-ish block of riches in soon after. Followed by a couple of 60ish leprachauns and a 4-wishing wells for a ton or so. Adds up to a grand.
Or party-games slotto, where EVERY player knows of its'double-jackpot' sequence, whereby u effectively get a grand too. Like the Electrocoins holding on £25 twice for an illegal £75 jackpot
Play 'winderella' on autoplay and see the dead period for 150ish which ALWAYS results in a red or green pot for about 180 after. Or the combo whereby you get pumpkins on 2 consecutive spins. Both blue pots. Play it long enough, on autoplay and after the red you'll get green, or vice-versa then blue, blue again then when you're about 400 down the white diamonds for 500, then dead. A tedious 50ish profit every time, day in day out.
Kai if the machines never had a target percentage they'd be outlawed, they DO have a target percentage. Previous play DOES affect current play, it has to otherwise unlucky arcades would have been bankrupted if they were unfortunate enough to be hit by a sequence of generous machine events. How would they sell them to arcades if they had to warn them "by having this 'random' machine you COULD incur serious losses if a long winning number sequence/period occurs..."
I believe you're both right, they are ostensibly random, but this randomness is selected in long sequences like the electrocoin payout 'ladder' programming whereby a long sequence of events is initiated which may be picked in different orders each time, i.e. the next 10,000 spins will produce 1x500 win on reels, 1x500 on feature, 1x400 on reels, 1x380 on reels, 4x200pound alternative features, 100x10pounds reel wins, and so-on adding upto 9,200 pounds, or 92%
IN one sequence or random 'block' of wins, the 2 500's may come out within 30 quid. In another you'll get a big run of 10 pound wins and maybe one 200 feature to get a big bank of 500+.
This explains the 'randomness' PLUS the constant observation of predictable patterns among those who watch them for hours and hours, plus their quite constant adherence to %ages set.
It also explains the PMK example, as the machine is using a payout in this long run each time when he switches it off when banking, and after a few times it will then it will then select a bigger one from the ladder to hit its %age.
If he did this long enough (plugging before banking) AND it was using a £1 credit every time, he would initiate a run of 3 jackpots in a few credits if he did this 1500+ times after his big win.
They are called random, use a form of 'randomimity' in their play and APPEAR random but by their very parameters most certain aren't.
Like a pyramid APPEARS triangular every which way you look at it, but when you look under it the bottom is square.....
dear god do you still not get it you fools, if the machine is genuinely random on 92% payout, it means it takes 8% a spin of £1, thats 8p... every spin takes 3 seconds, thats 20 spins a minute, which is £1.60 an hour....
£1.60 a minute in EXPECTED profits!!!! Thats over £100 a hour per machine in expected profits.
OK lets say said machine is played for 10 hours straight, that £1600 in expected profits. Cashino you obviously don't seem to realise this fact.. ARE YOU FUCKING STUPID - these machines make MINTS WITHOUT BEING RIGGED!!! WHY THE FUCK WOULD YOU RIG THEM. Even if the operator is unlucky and hits this "so called run of bad numbers" for the player, that means instead of £1600 up in the 10 hours he'd only be up £600... OHNO!!!!!!!!!!!!
OK let me speak from my experience from rainbow riches, and from what I've seen, gold pot is about 1/10 at the least, and it CERTAINLY hasnt paid big wins after on most occasions, this is all coincidence and stupid patterns that you have seen, as I said, its human nature to see patterns in random games; its all to make you play them thinking you know what's coming when you know jack all
U IDIOTS DONT GET IT DO YOU, THOSE THINGS ARE RANDOM AND YOU WILL ALWAYS LOSE IN THE LONG RUN THATS IT, GAME OVER.
£1.60 a minute in EXPECTED profits!!!! Thats over £100 a hour per machine in expected profits.
OK lets say said machine is played for 10 hours straight, that £1600 in expected profits. Cashino you obviously don't seem to realise this fact.. ARE YOU FUCKING STUPID - these machines make MINTS WITHOUT BEING RIGGED!!! WHY THE FUCK WOULD YOU RIG THEM. Even if the operator is unlucky and hits this "so called run of bad numbers" for the player, that means instead of £1600 up in the 10 hours he'd only be up £600... OHNO!!!!!!!!!!!!
OK let me speak from my experience from rainbow riches, and from what I've seen, gold pot is about 1/10 at the least, and it CERTAINLY hasnt paid big wins after on most occasions, this is all coincidence and stupid patterns that you have seen, as I said, its human nature to see patterns in random games; its all to make you play them thinking you know what's coming when you know jack all
U IDIOTS DONT GET IT DO YOU, THOSE THINGS ARE RANDOM AND YOU WILL ALWAYS LOSE IN THE LONG RUN THATS IT, GAME OVER.
Hold on. It's all well and good bashing the seeing patterns brigade, the conspiracy theorists brigade and the how can a random game pay to a percentage brigade. BUT(*).
You have glazed over PMK's testimony. The evidence placed before us, by this member of high esteem within the Fruitchat community is explosive. What have you to say about PMK's findings on this subject?
(*) Eat that, Pro Grammar XVIII
You have glazed over PMK's testimony. The evidence placed before us, by this member of high esteem within the Fruitchat community is explosive. What have you to say about PMK's findings on this subject?
(*) Eat that, Pro Grammar XVIII
lol what do I have to say?!??! erm proabably blind coincidence, along with exagerattion to try and prove a fruitless point... that good enough for you jg?JG wrote:Hold on. It's all well and good bashing the seeing patterns brigade, the conspiracy theorists brigade and the how can a random game pay to a percentage brigade. BUT(*).
You have glazed over PMK's testimony. The evidence placed before us, by this member of high esteem within the Fruitchat community is explosive. What have you to say about PMK's findings on this subject?
(*) Eat that, Pro Grammar XVIII
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mr lugsy
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jg , pmk,changingstakes,cashino etc,have all posted valuable experience based,factual information on this subject ,which is greatly appreciated by myself and im sure others. for them and myself to to still be heckled with this "definitely random" tosh,shows a narrow mind and and unwillingness to comprehend flaws that exist within the discussed formats.
by merely using the words "target" and "aiming" you are by definition suggesting a form of control, i dont mind people disagreeing with me ,but on what grounds? have they actually studied and experimented in a real world scenario? or digested chunks of wikipedia? ps, saw another elvis drop first 20 quid yesterday, and not just randomly!
by merely using the words "target" and "aiming" you are by definition suggesting a form of control, i dont mind people disagreeing with me ,but on what grounds? have they actually studied and experimented in a real world scenario? or digested chunks of wikipedia? ps, saw another elvis drop first 20 quid yesterday, and not just randomly!
[quote="ob"]dear god do you still not get it you fools, if the machine is genuinely random on 92% payout, it means it takes 8% a spin of £1, thats 8p... every spin takes 3 seconds, thats 20 spins a minute, which is £1.60 an hour....
£1.60 a minute in EXPECTED profits!!!! Thats over £100 a hour per machine in expected profits.
OK lets say said machine is played for 10 hours straight, that £1600 in expected profits. Cashino you obviously don't seem to realise this fact.. ARE YOU FUCKING STUPID - these machines make MINTS WITHOUT BEING RIGGED!!! WHY THE FUCK WOULD YOU RIG THEM. Even if the operator is unlucky and hits this "so called run of bad numbers" for the player, that means instead of £1600 up in the 10 hours he'd only be up £600... OHNO!!!!!!!!!!!!
OK let me speak from my experience from rainbow riches, and from what I've seen, gold pot is about 1/10 at the least, and it CERTAINLY hasnt paid big wins after on most occasions, this is all coincidence and stupid patterns that you have seen, as I said, its human nature to see patterns in random games]
NO, you are the 'fucking stupid fool' who refuses point blank to accept the world is round.
1. the 'gold pot' on 1/10 you said hasn't paid big wins after on "most occasions" D'OH! I said about 1/3 of the time on the 411 (now that was on £2spin), which ISN'T "most occasions"!!
2. Er...you're floundering here potty-mouth, when you say "operator will only be 600 up in 10 hours instead of 1600" because by your logic why 600 up?? If random he could be 10k DOWN!! in less than 10 hours if player got 20+ jackpots, by YOUR reasoning! But we both know you're reasoning is bull and this simply wouldn't happen BECAUSE THEY AREN'T TRULY RANDOM!!
3. I never said they were 'rigged'! I said were set to pay 92% and that they use various patterns of 'random' awards to achieve it.
4. Using your logic, to contradict you yet again, roulette at 97% we agree is truly random, and thus THE PLAYER COULD GET A HUGE WINNING SEQUENCE WHICH costs the casino dearly, and we all know stories of this occurring in the past.
With all the thousands of arcades and billions recycled as of today through sec16 machines, show me the arcade that has had a s16 pay 20 jackpots in one day or a hundred in a week (which give the 'randomimity' you talk about would surely have occurred by now) resulting in closure or financial difficulty.
5. As posters have pointed out you conveniently dodge some points. I ask AGAIN!
"How would these machines be sold to arcades if they had to warn that due to their random nature sequences of multi-thousand payouts could occur causing temporary financial difficulty"??
BECAUSE THEY AREN'T TRULY RANDOM, THEY WILL STAY CLOSE TO THEIR SET 90%/92% OVER A SHORT PERIOD, OVER MID-LONG PERIOD, JUST LIKE ALL THE ARCADE OPERATORS OTHER ELECTROCOINS,PROJECTS,BARCRESTS ETC!!
BECAUSE THEY AREN'T TRULY RANDOM, THEIR 'RANDOMNESS' IS CLOSELY CONTROLLED, GOD ARE YOU F*CKING STUPID???
(TO borrow one of your fuck-i'm-in-a-hole-here-maybe-swearing-will-divert-people lines.) You have a severe logic block, an intransigence caused by the limit of your understanding.
£1.60 a minute in EXPECTED profits!!!! Thats over £100 a hour per machine in expected profits.
OK lets say said machine is played for 10 hours straight, that £1600 in expected profits. Cashino you obviously don't seem to realise this fact.. ARE YOU FUCKING STUPID - these machines make MINTS WITHOUT BEING RIGGED!!! WHY THE FUCK WOULD YOU RIG THEM. Even if the operator is unlucky and hits this "so called run of bad numbers" for the player, that means instead of £1600 up in the 10 hours he'd only be up £600... OHNO!!!!!!!!!!!!
OK let me speak from my experience from rainbow riches, and from what I've seen, gold pot is about 1/10 at the least, and it CERTAINLY hasnt paid big wins after on most occasions, this is all coincidence and stupid patterns that you have seen, as I said, its human nature to see patterns in random games]
NO, you are the 'fucking stupid fool' who refuses point blank to accept the world is round.
1. the 'gold pot' on 1/10 you said hasn't paid big wins after on "most occasions" D'OH! I said about 1/3 of the time on the 411 (now that was on £2spin), which ISN'T "most occasions"!!
2. Er...you're floundering here potty-mouth, when you say "operator will only be 600 up in 10 hours instead of 1600" because by your logic why 600 up?? If random he could be 10k DOWN!! in less than 10 hours if player got 20+ jackpots, by YOUR reasoning! But we both know you're reasoning is bull and this simply wouldn't happen BECAUSE THEY AREN'T TRULY RANDOM!!
3. I never said they were 'rigged'! I said were set to pay 92% and that they use various patterns of 'random' awards to achieve it.
4. Using your logic, to contradict you yet again, roulette at 97% we agree is truly random, and thus THE PLAYER COULD GET A HUGE WINNING SEQUENCE WHICH costs the casino dearly, and we all know stories of this occurring in the past.
With all the thousands of arcades and billions recycled as of today through sec16 machines, show me the arcade that has had a s16 pay 20 jackpots in one day or a hundred in a week (which give the 'randomimity' you talk about would surely have occurred by now) resulting in closure or financial difficulty.
5. As posters have pointed out you conveniently dodge some points. I ask AGAIN!
"How would these machines be sold to arcades if they had to warn that due to their random nature sequences of multi-thousand payouts could occur causing temporary financial difficulty"??
BECAUSE THEY AREN'T TRULY RANDOM, THEY WILL STAY CLOSE TO THEIR SET 90%/92% OVER A SHORT PERIOD, OVER MID-LONG PERIOD, JUST LIKE ALL THE ARCADE OPERATORS OTHER ELECTROCOINS,PROJECTS,BARCRESTS ETC!!
BECAUSE THEY AREN'T TRULY RANDOM, THEIR 'RANDOMNESS' IS CLOSELY CONTROLLED, GOD ARE YOU F*CKING STUPID???
(TO borrow one of your fuck-i'm-in-a-hole-here-maybe-swearing-will-divert-people lines.) You have a severe logic block, an intransigence caused by the limit of your understanding.
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borgcontact4
This appears to be quite a heated post. Let me say this, manufacturers build machines and try to sell these to the end user. The cash box determines the number of machines they sell. Manufacturers will try and get as much money in the box as possible using whatever means. The Gaming Act introduced last year is starting to have an effect. Manufacturers will be accountable for their products. If you read it, one of their main criteria is that gaming is fair. In other words if you say a machine is random then it will be tested, by an independent test house, GLI for instance. The UK has been out of step with the rest of the world, all machines in USA need a test certificate and are random. Most of Europe is the same. random. Because the machines in the UK have not been random they have been manipulated by the few!!!! Stacked machines provide better earnings or did so when we had lots of players. The bad news but B3 will be random soon. Not the old programs in machines now, but new games.
Cat C machines can be compensated, so for the time being and the near future one will be able to hit the £35 machine. Forget the £500 machine it is on the way out.
BTW FYI the Section 16 machines were promoted as random, but they reduced the RNG seed to produce Jps of £500,. When Slotto came out every manufacturer decompiled it,. I had to do it for my company. As a result I can assure you that payouts are stored and then released in an enriched period. If anyone has access to Slotto Section 16, then it is easy to see without computer knowledge but by playing it for 4/5 days and recording the data. It sticks out like a sore thumb.
So reiterate, Random does not mean random to manufacturers unless they are policed by the Gambling Commission and they are just getting started. All machines manufactured now has to state random or compensated. B3 no compensation, Cat C can be compensated.
But manufacturers are devious!!!!!!!!!
Cat C machines can be compensated, so for the time being and the near future one will be able to hit the £35 machine. Forget the £500 machine it is on the way out.
BTW FYI the Section 16 machines were promoted as random, but they reduced the RNG seed to produce Jps of £500,. When Slotto came out every manufacturer decompiled it,. I had to do it for my company. As a result I can assure you that payouts are stored and then released in an enriched period. If anyone has access to Slotto Section 16, then it is easy to see without computer knowledge but by playing it for 4/5 days and recording the data. It sticks out like a sore thumb.
So reiterate, Random does not mean random to manufacturers unless they are policed by the Gambling Commission and they are just getting started. All machines manufactured now has to state random or compensated. B3 no compensation, Cat C can be compensated.
But manufacturers are devious!!!!!!!!!
I should think you DO want "enough on this one" as you have been totally disproven by the last post before yours and many players' experiences!ob wrote:Right, quite enough on this one I think, believe what you will, as I have said before, anyone who plays them alot will, in the long term (disregarding emptiers like the 10p bfm thing), be down.
PS: I take back the "idiots" comment.
Jeez, we are all wrong sometimes it's just being man enough to admit it.
You were obviously taken in by the 'random' stickers and claims. The last chap has blatantly told you they are pre-loaded.
They play similarly to Electrocoin lo-techs but with more variations in the possibilities, thus the patterns don't emerge for a while.
As for the statement "anyone who plays them alot will, in the long term (disregarding emptiers like the 10p bfm thing), be down" that is totally empty and meaningless, because the same goes for EVERY lo-tech machine with no possibility of player manipulation or input. That's stating the bleedin' obvious!! With almost any gambling.
I think the lesson is not to believe what a machine screen or sticker may tell you about being random.
Here's a question: on Elvis the payout screen states "Win upto £500 for 5 gold discs". So how come when you get 3 discs there is still a £500 on the feature wheel, which cannot possibly be won?
Thats another example of a machine blatantly trying to entice someone to play to win an amount that is impossible to get in those circumstances.
Here's a question: on Elvis the payout screen states "Win upto £500 for 5 gold discs". So how come when you get 3 discs there is still a £500 on the feature wheel, which cannot possibly be won?
Thats another example of a machine blatantly trying to entice someone to play to win an amount that is impossible to get in those circumstances.