New Beginning

[Roll_With_It_Russ]

What can I say here? Russ is moaning about taxes when he claims he doesn't pay any. He clearly does well financially and has found his ideal job which he is happy with and I think suits him down to the ground since he is making more money than it appears anyone of his academic ability could unless they inherited a load of money and made a business with it or inherited a business (not trying to insult here at all, I'm no genius)...

I wish I did achieve what I see as financial success!

[Roll_With_It_Russ]

Now you feel sorry for our troops? Surely, given your logic: they knew what they signed up for. You don't join the army and expect to push paper around all day. They get paid handsomely don't they? Or we're they not informed that one of the risks involved in the job was getting killed? It's just a job. If I got killed by a Devil of a Deal toppling on me due to it costing £8000 for a Big Money, would you have a whip round? I doubt it. They knew they might get killed, that's why they get good pay and a good pension. That's the capitalist way. Not saying I agree with it, but it's all laid out for you when you join up. No sympathy by your logic.

At least they won't be queuing for the bus on the M4.

I remember the day the armed forces visited school... it was all sign up for a safe career... even the mugs pushing it believed they would never have to see active service.

[Noels Beard]

Labour didn't wreck it, they just didn't save it. The problems that brought us to ground five years back were set on course by the Conservatives, and right wing ideals - there is no question of that. When Blair came to power many expected him to be more socially minded, and he certainly talked the talked, but failed to deliver. He also will be remembered for two daft middle-east conflicts, that obviously as a lefty I don't agree with.

And that's what our troops are paid to do is it ? Provide us with security ? Or is it to bully other nations when we need to divert attention from what's going on in the UK? We're both to young to remember the Falklands properly, but at least I've done my history homework. And i don't honour anyone i don't know. Certainly not for being stupid enough to sign up to the armed forces.

Thatcher destroyed the miners too. Miserable bitch.

And what would I do instead? Well I haven't really go the time to tell you on here. But if you would like to know, and that would make you the first. I would love to tell you.

[Noels Beard]

I remember the day the armed forces visited school... it was all sign up for a safe career... even the mugs pushing it believed they would never have to see active service.

Yes Russ! Haha! I like your attitude! High five!

[Roll_With_It_Russ]

Yes Russ! Haha! I like your attitude! High five!

I also remember the days the police used to come in and do talks, about how their job is there to serve and protect the community... nothing to do with police state at all.

And the day the local bank manager came in and pushed the opening of a bank account as it was the best place to put your money... not to get you in the system and bombard you with financial products when you hit 18.

And the fire saftey officer whose total blag was about having fire extinguishers all over the place that require yearly maintenance... yeah right, i've got some in the house, CO2 ones that work perfectly well, over 10years old.

Other things I never got my head round was PE, all the healthy kids loved it, the fat ones who needed to be pushed into doing exersise did none and always had a note as an excuse.

Geography had a massive amount of teaching about greenbelts and how its very worong to build here and the only place to build is brownfield sites where delelopers have to cram in the housing so there is enough to go around and can monopolise the market.

History - always skewed to the way that the British never did anything wrong and only went to war for the greater good, all other countries actions where unjust and evil.

I could go on and on.

[redlinesman]

This is such a laughable thread.

Roll with it Russ - your reasoning states that by paying no income tax the money stays in the system but where does the money come from to run the system with a mass deficit of government revenue? Are you suggesting the more money people have to spend by not paying tax will be recouped in VAT? Healthcare & education would be hit hard and you'd be going along the lines of the American system that have a low income tax rate. You are championing a consumption tax system which would hit the poor and less fortunate. It would be totally unfair as well as not everyone consumes at the same rate and those on lower incomes would be hit hardest as the price of everything would go up.

If fruit machine players had to pay income tax they would be significantly less off because they would be contributing to the treasury like nearly every other person who creates an income.

Noels - the point is so simple, playing fruit machines to earn money is a meaningless act in terms of a contribution to society.

[Noels Beard]

Ok dude. We'll just agree to disagree here. I'm not even refuting this statement, but by making it you throw up so many questions you seem unwilling to answer. In order to condemn this, you need to justify what you think is so great about any other profession. And the criteria!

[Roll_With_It_Russ]

This is such a laughable thread.

Roll with it Russ - your reasoning states that by paying no income tax the money stays in the system but where does the money come from to run the system with a mass deficit of government revenue? Are you suggesting the more money people have to spend by not paying tax will be recouped in VAT? Healthcare & education would be hit hard and you'd be going along the lines of the American system that have a low income tax rate. You are championing a consumption tax system which would hit the poor and less fortunate. It would be totally unfair as well as not everyone consumes at the same rate and those on lower incomes would be hit hardest as the price of everything would go up.

If fruit machine players had to pay income tax they would be significantly less off because they would be contributing to the treasury like nearly every other person who creates an income.

Noels - the point is so simple, playing fruit machines to earn money is a meaningless act in terms of a contribution to society.

The system is run by borrowing, inflation is there to errode the debt... all modern currencies come to an end eventually, a reset is due and we will have a new currency before the next boom, it migh just be new pence/pound or even the new euro... since the currency is being devalued at such a rate the short term measure might just be the case that this country follows what contries are already doing, that is to get rid of the lowest denominations, 1p and 2p to go and everything is priced to the nearest 5p.

[redlinesman]

All very good Russ but the original topic of discussion was how the fruit playing profession contributes to society.

[Roll_With_It_Russ]

If only there was enough jobs to go round, not everyone can be employed can they?

There will always be those choosing to make a living by other means than fitting in the taxation system for conventional forms of eraning an income... if they didn't they could just be unemployed, thrown in with kids(disabled or not), being a single parent, adopting a few etc etc can be a career in its self.

How many non jobs are there out there that do not contribute to society?

1000s and 1000s, either public sector or private sector where the main customer is public sector finance.

Unemployment is a massive employer in itself.

[Real Pro gamer]

I'm sorry but I have to disagree with a few points here,one of them being the wars.we can all sit here and judge what has happened in hindsight and say the wars where about just oil, but I think that's just jumping on the band wagon really. Bin laden and his fellow muppets blew up the twin towers when they MURDERED 3000 people some of them British, they also bombed numerous western( albeit I think a majority American) embassy's around the world,Also the shoe bomber was a British al-qaeda member so they had already started infiltrating our country.
On top of that they had the 7/7 Bombings after we invaded them but to be fair they had declared war on the west along long time before the 9/11 bombings.
Anybody can sit here and say oh yeah we did it for oil but what do u think would have happened if we didn't strike back,things would've got worse, there would have been more bombings which would have been easier to plan and carry out, what we did when we invaded was to tighten the noose around their neck and made life difficult for them and instead of blood being shed on our soil,the war is being fought over there while we live in less fear because of our brave soldiers and the intelligence agency's risking their lives against people trying to commit appalling crimes which we never hear about because its top secret.

[Roll_With_It_Russ]

I'm sorry but I have to disagree with a few points here,one of them being the wars.we can all sit here and judge what has happened in hindsight and say the wars where about just oil, but I think that's just jumping on the band wagon really. Bin laden and his fellow muppets blew up the twin towers when they MURDERED 3000 people some of them British, they also bombed numerous western( albeit I think a majority American) embassy's around the world,Also the shoe bomber was a British al-qaeda member so they had already started infiltrating our country.
On top of that they had the 7/7 Bombings after we invaded them but to be fair they had declared war on the west along long time before the 9/11 bombings.
Anybody can sit here and say oh yeah we did it for oil but what do u think would have happened if we didn't strike back,things would've got worse, there would have been more bombings which would have been easier to plan and carry out, what we did when we invaded was to tighten the noose around their neck and made life difficult for them and instead of blood being shed on our soil,the war is being fought over there while we live in less fear because of our brave soldiers and the intelligence agency's risking their lives against people trying to commit appalling crimes which we never hear about because its top secret.

I only have the opinion that if you think the supposed act of terror that was the twin towers attack and those following where directly linked to those in these middle east countries that we invaded, does it not seem a bit strange that not a lot of action has happened since.

Are we supposed to really belive that they would just sit in their own country and fight it out... I would of thought that there would be weekly attacks on the UK and American cities... declared war, but only if we go and fight them on their home ground, what utter bullshit.

[Real Pro gamer]

The reason not a lot of action has happened since is because we are stopping it, do u really think our security agency's are sat around playing tiddilywinks,having a base over there is stopping them from functioning properly and being as organised as they could be,stopping these terror suspects from communicating to each other and making life difficult for them, and how can u call 3000 deaths a supposed act of terror, that is an awful thing to say,you're sat there in your own little protective bubble because of the bravery of over people not because of anything you have done,these people aren't like me and u, not everybody Is the same, we live among murders and rapists, that's what these people are--- TERRORISTS ,they need stopping, do u honestly believe that if you just left them alone they would just go out and get a day job, u can't be so naive

[Roll_With_It_Russ]

Stopping terrorism, have you seen how fucking inept the security is in this country, they can't even deport someone they don't want in this country, let alone stopping a suicide bomber.

[Ruler of The World]

The 9/11 attack had nothing to do with Iraq, nor Afghanistan - please remember that Bin Laden was found in PAKISTAN - a place which wasn't bombed. I'm sure he has loads of fanatics loyal to his cause there so let's bomb Pakistan now! It all makes perfect sense to do so since it was fair to bomb the other 2! Moreover, it was not a government order Bin Laden followed, so why bomb military sites, roads and all the rest of it? Why kill innocent people? Surely that in itself is hypocrisy on a grand scale? Well so far this false quest to 'avenge' the 3,600 which was quoted has cost at least 181,000 people THEIR lives in these 'wars against terror' - how many of them do you think were terrorists? I'm sure a few of you would say. "All!" and think its funny - but it isn't funny, its wrong. Astonishing how in the end they found Bin Laden, was that a result of all the previous attacks? I think NOT!

There is no way anyone can justify these attacks, there were NO Weapons of Mass Destruction in either Iraq or Afganistan, we all know that. It was simply done to line pockets of warmongering megalomaniacs. Look at Blair now, donating his book proceeds to the families of soldiers who were NEEDLESSLY KILLED! If he was so sure he did the right thing, why give fortunes away?

This is if we are assuming its true Bin Laden and his nutters were behind it all... I am more inclined to suspect the Mossad conspiracy theory (Israeli secret service for those of you who don't know). Amazing how passports remained intact after both towers came down and were burnt to a crisp...

I don't even like Iraqi or Afghan people in general, I find the ones here extremely rude and uncivilised arrogant twerps but they don't deserve to be mercilessly bombed on the actions of a group of extremists and on complete lies regarding the military capability of a very distant nation.

Next time an Iranian pushes into a queue in my local corner shop I'll write to David Cameron DEMANDING we attack Iran just for the hell of it!