500jps observation

[Fruiter]

dear god is this still going on, can someone lock the thread please :P

All I can say to those in the "non-random" camp, is that experience proves nothing, as it can all be coincidental, however common a certain pattern etc. is and can happen whether the machine is random or not.

Here's a personal experience to share with you guys btw, hi roller £5 a go ( back in s16 days ), which I might add in my experience was the best s16 machine ever - especially since its on 98%..... anyhow...£20 in for £250, another £250 came £30 later, which emptied the machine. Came back to the arcade later on after they refilled it, and got another £250, followed by copious £50/100 wins to empty it AGAIN...

Finally they put £150 in it again on refill and I put £40 in for ANOTHER £250.... does this sound like the payout from a non-random machine.... I don't think so personally....

If it's the same high roller (poker themed) then i've played £1000's through this and it does have some very obvious patterns.

It was always quite a good payer on £2 a spin and was fairly predictable, before or after a JP there would always be a £25 and a £100 win close together.

And the one we had always gave the 'random' spin of the wheel in 3's, guaranteed if you got it once it would appear another couple of times within £10/20.

[cashino]

dear god is this still going on, can someone lock the thread please :P

All I can say to those in the "non-random" camp, is that experience proves nothing, as it can all be coincidental, however common a certain pattern etc. is and can happen whether the machine is random or not.

Here's a personal experience to share with you guys btw, hi roller £5 a go ( back in s16 days ), which I might add in my experience was the best s16 machine ever - especially since its on 98%..... anyhow...£20 in for £250, another £250 came £30 later, which emptied the machine. Came back to the arcade later on after they refilled it, and got another £250, followed by copious £50/100 wins to empty it AGAIN...

Finally they put £150 in it again on refill and I put £40 in for ANOTHER £250.... does this sound like the payout from a non-random machine.... I don't think so personally....

Lock the thread?? Don't be silly, how fascistic, becasue YOU disagree with the views expressed! What's your name, Mugabe?
It's this forums most popular thread for ages, maybe will become the most ever. Not random these posts though. Consistently 70-30 in favour of the ranscepts like me, there is compensation clearly occurring here.

Your example above occurs on machines that tend to be A) recently installed and are meeting their 92% for the first time, Electrocoins do this too although you can get a plug-in which 'plays' the first 10,000 spins to stop the arcade refilling it for first few days, or B) on an enhanced period of payout EPP - this example you mention used to occur on Riches too on £2 per spin, although both yours and my examples will be outdated now since b3 £1 staking.
And yes SLUTTO DOES drop loads of j/p symbols on reels 3,4,5, on REEL KING game, and it always precedes a jackpot-symbol combo of £5-75 pounds, then the jackpots STOP appearing on reels 3,4,5, for a time.
RANDOM?? BUL****T Why does it always go tens of pounds without wins, even 50p,then you hit a load of reel king features within 20 quid or so??
These play almost EXACTLY like Electrocoin lo-techs now. Experience?? Yes! By thousands of us, nationwide. My uncle used to say "NO voice speaks louder than the voice of experience......" I've not seen this adage contradicted in my life yet...

Like my unfortunate earlier example, the 1960's morning-sickness drug Thalidomide, the 'experts' invented it, the drugs board declared it safe after 'extensive trials' (trials no doubt carried out by those on the 'right' side!) and the expert doctors prescribed it.

Then, peoples experiences......"Doc, my baby has no arms" , midwives' faces dropping at various births as they saw another hideously deformed child come out, straight away the 'experts' denying the obvious correlation between the drug and the defects....until eventually even the 'experts' couldn't deny the evidence, these so-called mathematicians continuing to deny the correlation despite the odds against it being wrong lengthening and lengthening........

None so blind as those who don't wanna see, OB - open your eyes.

[PMK]

Crikey, been away and this is still going on!!

I know what I witnessed every sodding time we ram cleared and plugged. Truly random slottos would not have done what CSCH's did. Its not bullshit, its not an exageration, its not been tweaked to back up our argument its what actually happened at least 50 times on the trot.

I personally dont give a shit if they are random or not, we all know they are a disgrace, someone started a post and I merely reported my findings as someone who has been fortunate to mess around with one in a way that possibly no programmer ot player ever could.

If people want to bash me and call me stupid(though to be fair I dont think anyone did) thats up to them, but to have seen it with my own eyes I now know that they are not trustworthy and are NOT sponsered by Ronseal(Get it!!)

Anyway, I will be experimenting on a Juggling Jackpots on Monday, I say within a week I will have it sussed, so PM me now for the emptier which will soon be uncovered!!

Oh and by the way I wonder what will happen if I keep plugging at IM points? Or at POT/Juggling Jackpots boards??? Do you think becuase they pay to a %age that the machine will want to keep giving me these wins back??? Or do you think it will have forgotten its current state and just go back to its dreary £3 boards? Sound familiar?????

[mr lugsy]

i think the programmers postings on this thread are honest and meant with best intentions to explain "anomalies" that could indeed occur in a naturally random manner,however i agree totally with cashino's earlier post., i too believe that someone higher up the pay grade is responsible for fixing things, so to speak.
if i was a manufacturer i would have many concerns in putting out a machine that could possibly ruin an operator,and therefore biting the hand that feeds me. would i be able to totally trust the programming team to provide a coding that contained no "easter eggs" ?,i surely would be troubled. would i commission a seperate system to safeguard the operator at the players expense? i would like some kind of back up plan ,after all, rogue programmers exist in numbers and a 500jpt rolled
out across the country could be an appetising thought to the "right" person.

[Mystery_Plum]

i too believe that someone higher up the pay grade is responsible for fixing things, so to speak.

The only person who knows exactly how a game works is the person who wrote the code, and the person who designed the game, who would have told the programmer exactly how he wanted it done.

You will find that 99% of people 'higher up the pay grade' don't have a clue about writing software. Even if they did, I can't see them sneaking in at 3am in their Rolls Royce to add a few lines, while the programmer is tucked up in bed. If they want something changed or added, it would have to be done through the designer and the software programmer.

It's quite demeaning to suggest that someone can code a game from start to finish, yet still not know exactly what is going on with it, because of interference from people higher up.

[ob]

lol cashino, I have seen the same patterns on reel king etc. with the jp's on reels 3/4/5, the thing is, this doesn't interfere with whether the machine is random or not... the spin is just a representation of the amount of money the random number corresponds to... how it represents it is up to the machine, and therefore it can be FIXED to SHOW jp's on reels 3/4/5 every spin for a set amount of times, so long as amount of money the random number picked is assigned to is given by the machine that spin. This was a clever ploy by astra to get people thinking its due a jp no doubt.

Oh and btw if the machine fucks up in the middle off a winning spin on an astra, as I've had (reelking), on switching it on and off it comes back with that spin, but in a different vise... I had £20ish on the reels, fucked up whilst counting it up, machine was turned back on and it just gave the 1 man (I think) for the same win... just shows you it doesn't matter how the machine displays the win, just what win it wanted to give from the random number.

Also on random machines you are bound to get periods where they play better just coincicdentally, ie. your supposed "EPP"

Oh btw, I once keyed a crest s16, dunno if anyone else has done this, anyhow, it actually tells you which random number it has picked for the last spin, it's a really long number lol...! I'm sure there's a load of data you can pick up from them anyhow that may help us put this one to bed. If you have a non-security guard services, take a look...

[mr lugsy]

if the machine can swop symbols assigned to a losing spin for other losing symbols assigned to the same numbers ,then the fact that blocks of large symbols on righthand reels are being artificially "upgraded" to jpt symbols is sailing a bit close to the wind,it is total misrepresentation of a perceived random playfield. furthermore,for a "firm" to market this as 100% random is unethical and is disrespectful to the player.
the "sexing up" of the symbols to the average joe may look enticing , he may believe in true random , but in no way is he getting what he paid for.

[Mystery_Plum]

On Party Games Slotto and Reel King those abundant Jackpot symbols on reels 4 and 5 are genuinely chosen by the RNG every game. They are not artificially placed there to make the result look exciting, or to create the impression of a near-miss. The near-misses you see during play are down to the clever way the stats were worked out on these games.

[mr lugsy]

indeed it is "clever" way they had with stats , but sailing ever closer to the wind all the same.the generation of random symbols so as to appear attractive even on a losing spin,would not in my mind be a fair example of random. i would expect to be treated to the myriad of possibilties that a truely random machine would provide , "this machine may play in a way delibrately coded to mislead your customers " doesnt feature in no manual.

[Mattb]

Yep exactly. If it were truly random then surely you'd get all sorts of different combos all the time on the 4th/5th reels? What happens? Bloody wilds and sevens everywhere all the time. Yeah, really random.

By the way, when collecting my win on the national today i saw an indian bloke lose 3 consecutive spins £55 on a FOBT with 31/36 numbers covered. Funny how this one in a million chance happens all the bloody time. Bent as a nine bob note.

[Mystery_Plum]

Yep exactly. If it were truly random then surely you'd get all sorts of different combos all the time on the 4th/5th reels? What happens? Bloody wilds and sevens everywhere all the time. Yeah, really random.

By the way, when collecting my win on the national today i saw an indian bloke lose 3 consecutive spins £55 on a FOBT with 31/36 numbers covered. Funny how this one in a million chance happens all the bloody time. Bent as a nine bob note.

37 numbers you mean?

So that's 1 in (37/5)*(37/5)*(37/5)=405

Hardly one in a million Matt

[Mystery_Plum]

indeed it is "clever" way they had with stats , but sailing ever closer to the wind all the same.the generation of random symbols so as to appear attractive even on a losing spin,would not in my mind be a fair example of random. i would expect to be treated to the myriad of possibilties that a truely random machine would provide , "this machine may play in a way delibrately coded to mislead your customers " doesnt feature in no manual.

'This machine is 100% random, within the interpretation of the Section 16 guidelines' might have been a better way of wording the disclaimer then

[mrdave]

On Party Games Slotto and Reel King those abundant Jackpot symbols on reels 4 and 5 are genuinely chosen by the RNG every game. They are not artificially placed there to make the result look exciting, or to create the impression of a near-miss. The near-misses you see during play are down to the clever way the stats were worked out on these games.

I'm sure someone has been clever in designing these sequences of JP symbols. Come on, of course they are placed there to create the impression of a near-miss or due a big win - why else would they be? Which by the way I'd have no problem with if the said machine did not market itself to joe public as 100% random.

100% random should not only mean the financial outcome of each spin, but surely the position of the various symbols too.

[mrdave]

Can I also ask a hypothetical question to all the intelligent people or porgrammers on the forum?

Take the Elvis machine as an example, where 5x WILD symbols is £500 jackpot. Say you get five wilds in a row across the middle line. Firstly, is this possible? Second, what would the machine do because smaller wins on the first three reels would be inevitable due to the wilds, thus in theory taking wins in excess of £500?

Thanks.

[Mystery_Plum]

Can I also ask a hypothetical question to all the intelligent people or porgrammers on the forum?

Take the Elvis machine as an example, where 5x WILD symbols is £500 jackpot. Say you get five wilds in a row across the middle line. Firstly, is this possible? Second, what would the machine do because smaller wins on the first three reels would be inevitable due to the wilds, thus in theory taking wins in excess of £500?

Thanks.

The disclaimer -

NO PRIZE GREATER IN VALUE THAN 500 POUNDS CAN BE WON FROM THIS MACHINE IN ANY ONE GAME

would mean that all accumulative wins in a single game are capped at £500. Probably the same for the slots in UK casinos.