New Beginning

[Roll_With_It_Russ]

That's all great, well explained and all...

but what is your POINT? How does it relate to the thread?

all a minor technicality

[Noels Beard]

Noels - you are missing the point totally. I'm talking about a profession or a job and not individuals. Your arguments are reminiscent of the actions of the co-pilot on Air France flight 447.

So what exactly are you saying? That its better to be a doctor than a fruit player? That its better to be a Fruit Player than a Tramp? That its better to be a Tramp than a criminal? And you arbitrarily make these distinctions based upon your own agenda?! I find it fascinating that you are making the distinction between a profession and an individual. I mean...how the hell can you do that?! People are either defined by their roles in society or they are not?! Make your mind up!

[Roll_With_It_Russ]

Furthermore you average member of society has no where near as much responcibilty or earns as much as a finance director.

The only finance director I know, earns in excess of £200k a year, but really apart from a bit of tax they contribute nothing to society, the plan is that they are fully retired by 40, they have done this by leveraging their salary into property investments... in went into the millions years ago, now what they are doing is destroying other peoples possibility of being able to afford a place to live.

So many professionals believe that is is their right to make the rentier classes slaves to them, if thats what being a moderate tax payer entitles you to then I don't wnat to be a part of it.

[Ruler of The World]

Don't mean to be rude but you'd never get a decent job anyway with your spelling. you're going on and on about nothing. Here I am, waiting for the lovely lamb to turn up for my dinner on the balcony in the excutive suite and I have to read this garbage - on MY thread!!!

[Noels Beard]

That's a nice point Russ. Thatcher is to blame, it's a shame that so few are aware of how the political decisions made 20-30 years back effect us today. The doctor, the finance director, the private businessman: they all have their accounts managed and have manipulated the system to pay as little tax as possible. The k2 (I think this was what it was called) that Jimmy Carr and a few other celebs were involved in, meant those involved paid almost no tax at all. This is why I referred to it as a "game" in one of my original posts...one which stirred such indignation from Linesman and ROW in the first place.

[Roll_With_It_Russ]

Why would I choose to work more than required, if I work all year round I can't choose what to do with my spare time and pay a much higher amount of tax on any profit I might some how end up with.

[Roll_With_It_Russ]

That's a nice point Russ. Thatcher is to blame, it's a shame that so few are aware of how the political decisions made 20-30 years back effect us today. The doctor, the finance director, the private businessman: they all have their accounts managed and have manipulated the system to pay as little tax as possible. The k2 (I think this was what it was called) that Jimmy Carr and a few other celebs were involved in, meant those involved paid almost no tax at all. This is why I referred to it as a "game" in one of my original posts...one which stirred such indignation from Linesman and ROW in the first place.

This is the biggy really, income tax as a % should be income tax regardless, it should not matter if the income is from owning a business or being an employee.

I would be tempted to work all year round in a job I enjoy, if the money I earned equated to the effort I put into earning that money, it does not work like that sadly.

[Noels Beard]

I must add, the points Russ makes about tax are relevant. Because there are many advantages to being 'opted in' and paying a very small amount of tax. You've obviously got your national insurance which will give you an old age pension, plus you are eligible for all sorts of tax credits and benefits, etc...

[Noels Beard]

Yes Russ. I fear we are sitting in the left of the Political spectrum. Whereas Linesman and Ruler, well they're goose-stepping to a different tune!

[mr lugsy]

left right or centre. being able to vote for your master doesn't make you any less of a slave.

[Noels Beard]

No. Says a lot about the person though.

[Ruler of The World]

What can I say here? Russ is moaning about taxes when he claims he doesn't pay any. He clearly does well financially and has found his ideal job which he is happy with and I think suits him down to the ground since he is making more money than it appears anyone of his academic ability could unless they inherited a load of money and made a business with it or inherited a business (not trying to insult here at all, I'm no genius)...

As for politics, Thatcher was a great leader - in my opinion the best there has been since I was born (1977) and Labour have always wrecked the UK.

Thatcher spoke her mind and said a lot of things I 100% agree with. The Poll Tax was a disaster but come on, taxes are always going to piss people off so what's new there?

As I remember it, we had a surplus of cash before Labour took over and look at us now? Labour could 'afford' tax cuts then - what went wrong? Are we going to blame the American economy for everything? What was it they were saying about Gordon Brown? Best Chancellor ever? We're in safe hands with him? LOL!!! They accused the Conservatives of 'boom and bust' politics - what was their equivalent, 'no boom, just bust' or 'bust and bust'? Its going to war with everyone that got us in this mess and spending on God knows what - bus lanes on motorways? Bus lanes everywhere? Why? FUCK buses! Let passengers wait their turn like the people who weren't failures and got their own motors and paid road tax and all the rest of it!

As the great lady said: "Any man who finds himself on a bus over the age of 30 can consider himself a failure in life."

As for Blair, he is a war criminal not just against the people in the middle east him and his fellow war criminal pal Bush murdered, but against our troops who have now left behind their families and kids when there was no threat to the UK in the first place!

[Noels Beard]

No surprise that you are a Tory really. Yes we had a surplus of cash when Labour came in, that's because of the way the Conservative party had stripped the country of all it's social holdings. Shame they didn't get rid of the NHS too huh? Then, instead of having these poor people queue for the bus, we could have let many of them die in the streets before they got too big. The last labour government wasn't even a left-wing approach, and Mr Blairs views are very much learned of Thatchers. Everyone bought their council houses, and people were encourages not to think if their home as a place to live - but as an investment. It's precisely this greedy attitude that causes all these problems. When the Berlin Wall fell they said communism was dead - well when the banks failed, Capitalism should have died too. But there are too many rich greedy fools (such as yourself it would seem) who want to hold on to the ideals of Capitalism. With your mindset I'm surprised you're even asking questions on this forum? Even if they are rhetorical enough to not warrant a valid answer.

[Noels Beard]

Now you feel sorry for our troops? Surely, given your logic: they knew what they signed up for. You don't join the army and expect to push paper around all day. They get paid handsomely don't they? Or we're they not informed that one of the risks involved in the job was getting killed? It's just a job. If I got killed by a Devil of a Deal toppling on me due to it costing £8000 for a Big Money, would you have a whip round? I doubt it. They knew they might get killed, that's why they get good pay and a good pension. That's the capitalist way. Not saying I agree with it, but it's all laid out for you when you join up. No sympathy by your logic.

At least they won't be queuing for the bus on the M4.

[Ruler of The World]

Those troops were sent out to help steal oil, not to defend their country. What threat were Iraq or Afghanistran to us? Found those weapons of mass destruction yet? Troops are paid handsomely to provide us with security when our nation is under threat, that doesn't mean their lives aren't valuable too and for goodness sakes we're always remembering them and honouring them! I think its a disgrace that those troops lost their lives essentially to help steal oil and line Bush and Blair's pockets.

If you refuse to accept Labour wrecked the nation rather than the American banking crisis then my advice is just continue sucking your thumbs! Blair is now the middle east peace envoy - hypocrisy???? Who would want to deal with that war criminal in the region? Its pathetic.

I wouldn't call myself a Tory at all, I just think they've done a better job than Labour. I'm no better off than the average Labour supporter (if they still exist), I just liked that Thatcher said what she thought, she probably wouldn't have got away with it in this 'politically correct' era but I do agree with the bus/failure comment because I know I failed myself and ended up on the buses from being at the dizzy heights of owning an Audi S5! OK so there may be genuinely unfortunate cases in which people have lost their wealth without going mental on the gambling like I did but in general I would agree that a 30+ male on a bus is a failure even today.

That's my opinion, I'm judging Labour on what they've done whilst in power in front of my very own eyes, not just being anti-Labour because I love the Conservatives. I don't particularly like Cameron just for the record.

As for Capitalism, it clearly IS NOT working but what is the alternative? The only other 1 I have learned about and which is most similar to it is the Islamic system (ask Gordon Brown about that, he's well clued up). I don't see any skint Arab nations unless the dictator leaders are stealing from the people as it has been found they have been recently (Egypt, Tunisia)... Communism is all about everyone being equally wealthy isn't it? I don't think I'd mind that much!